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Brexit

Westministenders: Reality Bytes

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2018 22:39

Tonight the Corbyn and McDonnell Labour Party supported the Tory Party in improving the tax allowance for higher rate tax payers.

Yes you read that right. Did you even blink?

You've been so conditioned into seeing non existant opposition which seems to go against everything the Labour Party stand for that you no longer are shocked.

That's what 2 and a half years of Brexit has done to you.

You no longer care that Boris Johnson got £14,000 from the Saudis a couple of days before the Khashoggi murder. You know longer care that the former Defence Secretary is employed for £75,000 a year to advise a major Saudi Investor.

You are just happy that Trump hasn't started a war with Iran or North Korea yet. And hasn't started a civil war. (Though he's trying hard and next week is his best opportunity to stir it all up). You aren't surprised to hear that predictions are that the Democrats will fail to make gains in the mid terms.

You've suffered the 4657 story about how Therea May is just about to be challenged for the leadership.

You've heard about the squad set up at the Home Office to clear up all the cases the media get their hands on as the latest burning injustice. You are hearing that EU nationals who have been promised they are 'safe' are being subjected to questions about their right to stay. And you just shrug and say, "Yeah well thats the Home Office for you. The Bastards". And you do mean it, but you are so jaded by it all. And you worry that another 12 months from now, you won't even be interested in another story like that, and the press will stop printing them as they no longer interest the reader. What happens to your friends, your family, or even you then? Who is going to care then?

And then you have today.

A day where you hear that Bannon is being investigated by the Senate Intel Committee, Farage has been upgraded to the FBI's Really Naughty List and Banks has (FINALLY) been refered to the NCA. (We were only speculating on the possibility, on the 26th March...)

And you go 'Ooooooooo maybe there is hope'.

Maybe we COULD remain in the EU and avoid Turnip Soup and wiping your arse with leaves because of the national bog roll shortage. Or at least get a decent deal which suits us as a nation. Maybe, just maybe!

And that lasts for about 2 minutes before you log into twitter and the very first thing you see this:

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Excl: David Cameron tells friends he’d like a return to frontline politics, and fancies Foreign Secretary
www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639377/david-cameron-return-to-politics/

And you let out a high pitched screech as if you are were a dying cat as you remember this is 2018, and it just wants to beat the life out of you.

On the plus side, it shows you do still care enough to think 'Don't let that fucking bastard anywhere near power ever, ever again.'.

Ho hum.

Keep on, keeping on. Don't let the bastards win.
Keep caring. It matters.

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Thread gallery
44
DoctorTwo · 03/11/2018 20:56

I don't understand why no-one seems to mention the obvious conflict of interest that is Theresa May's husband.

About the only place that's reported this in the MSM is Private Eye.

Of course we're going to keep on selling arms to Saudi Arabia because the Mays will get richer. Killing Yemeni kids=kerching. The corruption is strong at the top of the nasty party.

DGRossetti · 03/11/2018 20:56

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46086336

More than 70 business leaders have signed a letter to the Sunday Times calling for a public vote on the UK's Brexit deal.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 03/11/2018 21:32

mybrain He said he thought too much damage had been done now (he’s right about that at least) and so we had no option but to leave. He also said he’d voted Remain because he doesn’t like change but that now he feels long term we’d be better off out of it. He dislikes the drift towards a United States of Europe, European army etc. If we stayed now we’d be compelled to adopt the Euro, join Schengen etc. He thinks a deal will be done at the last minute because No Deal would be too damaging for everyone.

He’s a very successful, wealthy business owner who does a lot of trade with Europe and everything will be fine. Oh, and apparently we gave it our best shot (did we?)but we never really fitted in. We’re different and will be better off on our own.

I asked him what rabbit he felt was going to be pulled from the hat and what the possible solution to the NI border issue was. He said he didn’t know but that ‘they’ would find one.

I did a little silent scream...

Peregrina · 03/11/2018 21:58

He dislikes the drift towards a United States of Europe, European army etc. If we stayed now we’d be compelled to adopt the Euro, join Schengen etc. He thinks a deal will be done at the last minute because No Deal would be too damaging for everyone.

Was he force fed a diet of the Daily Mail under the old editor? All weary cliches which have been debunked time and time again. We might hope for a last minute deal because of the damage not having one will cause, but I don't trust anyone in Government to negotiate one sensibly.

I suspect that we will try to get back in, if we do crash out, and then will we have said goodbye to any rebates and any other special pleading. I imagine that even if May managed to suspend the process and we stayed in without crashing out, the rebates and other concessions would bite the dust. We have caused too much aggro for the others to pander to us any more.

54321go · 03/11/2018 22:09

I think it is pretty definate that the UK is leaving now. Possibly almost independantly, much industry will walk because they can't wait any longer for the UK to stop pratting about. I think probably the NI 'border' will be in the sea as the EU will NEVER push for a 'land' border.
The 'quality' of any 'deal' is now down to the UK but I would anticipate that any 'rebates' will be gone either now of from March.

Annandale · 03/11/2018 22:24

My pollyanna moment is that if we ever do go back in, we can't ever be half in and half out again - we will have to commit.

My non-pollyanna moment is I think more likely - the world is changing too much and we won't go back in - the beautiful idea that is still there within the often frustrating reality of Europolitik is too hidden and too distant to survive.

woman11017 · 03/11/2018 22:28

So many complaints to the BBC that they have a special page for it now.Wink

@SkyNewsBreak
The Sunday Times report sources say Prime Minister Theresa May has secured concessions from the European Union to keep the whole of the UK in a customs union after Brexit in order to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland

Westministenders: Reality Bytes
54321go · 03/11/2018 22:36

The UK needs to leave so it can learn that it is not a special snowflake.Other countries have learned the hard way, and it is the turn for the UK now.

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 22:43

Sky News Breaking @SkyNewsBreak
Theresa May's spokesman says a report in the Sunday Times which claims the Prime Minister has achieved concessions from the EU to keep the UK in a customs union to avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland after Brexit is "speculation"

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woman11017 · 03/11/2018 22:45

Oh well............
Anyone got access to the actual article?

Westministenders: Reality Bytes
RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 22:45

Interesting timing....

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RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 22:47

Women if you save the image you can zoom in and read the front page.

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RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 22:52

If May has secured that as a deal, you wonder where that leaves Liam Fox. He'd done 290,000 air miles by March. And achieved precisely nothing.

And the WTO stuff thats come out in the last few weeks (which we all knew was coming), only adds to the sense of how poor the other set of negogiations has gone.

The media has consistantly neglected that May's initial approach was always about TWO sets of deals not simply the EU one.

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BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2018 22:59

May Has EU Concessions to Keep U.K. in Customs Union: Times

red Is that CU for now, but Canada+ later ?
Because afaik, the / a CU would make it difficult to have trade deals with non-EU countries, as the ERG Brexiters want

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-03/may-has-concessions-from-eu-to-keep-u-k-in-customs-union-times

Theresa May has secured concessions from Brussels that will allow her to keep all of Britain in a customs union with the European Union
and avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland, the Times reported, without citing sources.

The move could win over some opposition Labour MPs and increase the chances of getting such an agreement through the House of Commons.

Under the banner headline "May’s Secret Brexit Deal,"
the newspaper said she’s also on course to secure an agreement on a "future economic partnership" that will allow Britain to keep open the prospect of a similar free trade accord to the one Canada has with the EU.

That in turn could sway the euroskeptic wing of her Conservative Party.

According to the Telegraph, May has included Attorney General Geoffrey Cox, the government’s chief legal adviser, in her special Brexit cabinet
after ministers said they wouldn’t sign off on a deal without his advice.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2018 23:01

The part of the deal they are worried about signing is reportedly the CU

  • because they want to be sure the UK can leave it and make trade deals with other countries
woman11017 · 03/11/2018 23:02

Thanks BCF and red

woman11017 · 03/11/2018 23:08

Bit of Saturday night cheer. Smile Pretty funny:
When the EDL got laughed out of Liverpool accompanied by Benny Hill music -someone had brought along a huge soundbox
twitter.com/transalpino/status/1058354289507098624

For so many reasons I love Liverpool. Smile

Peregrina · 03/11/2018 23:38

Theresa May has secured concessions from Brussels that will allow her to keep all of Britain in a customs union with the European Union and avoid a hard border in Northern Ireland

Does she need 'concessions'? She was the one who said she wanted out of the CU - otherwise, it would almost certainly have been an option on the table.

But still they are arguing and contradicting each other!

What was wrong with the BBC Budget Report? Did it explain how the wealthy were going to be the greatest beneficiaries?

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 23:47

Article says:

Cabinet sources say parts of it "could have been written by Jacob Rees-Mogg", the leader of the hardline Eurosceptics.
A close aide of Michel Barnier the EU negotiator, revealed a major concession on the Irish border during a private meeting in London last week. The EU now accepts that regulatory checks can take place "in the market" by British Officials, meaning they can be conducted at factories and shops rather than at the border.

Remember the DUP were suddenly 'happy' with Brexit.

It then later states:

The EU will write an all-UK customs deal into the legally binding withdrawal agreement so an EU-designed "backstop" treating Northern Ireland differently from the UK mainland is not required
There will be an "exit clause" to convince Eurosceptics the UK will not be in it forever

The best bit of the whole article is this though:
The challenge May faces in winning support is spelt out in stark terms today by David Davis, the former Brexit secretary.

Writing in this newspaper, he issues a call for the prime minister to publish legal advice on any deal so ministers and MPs understand its implications before they are asked to vote on it.

^Davis warns May that she will get into the same "mess" as Tony Blair did over the Iraq war unless she is transparent about the legal basis for "one of the most fundamental decisions that a decisions that a government will have taken in modern times".

He writes that Blair's reputation "never recovered" after he refused to publish the legal advice of his attorney-general, Lord Goldsmith, on Iraq. When it leaked during the 2005 general election campaign it revealed Goldsmith's doubts about the legality of war.

It's now the time to publish the legal advice the cabinet has recieved - no ifs and no buts, "Davis writes. "Blair suffered because he wriggled and prevaricated. I would urge the the prime minister to do the right thing and publish the advice; if she won't, the cabinet should exert its collective authority to compel her to do so.

"We need the cards laid on the table so that we can form a judgment"

Curiously if you cast your mind back to when the Brexit cabinet was formed, you might remember David Allen Green commenting on THE LACK OF A LAWYER. And this looked particularly bad around the time of the a50 court case.

The question for me is when May started to get legal advice and to what exact?

She consistently did things whilst at the HO which seem to suggest she had a particular contempt for the law, often opposition or appeal court decisions beyond the point which seemed logical. There was at least one case, where the judge threw out an appeal on the basis of how crap the decision to appeal was, and commented on it.

Now just how is this all going to pan out, I don't know, but you might expect the remain side to be critical of May's legal handling of brexit. But its not. Its the leave one. Is it a reverse like Trump? Or is it how they intend to get what they want out of Brexit in the long term?

Davis's own position over the legalities, also have to be questioned here too. How much responsibility did he carry? Is he trying to worm his way out of that?

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woman11017 · 03/11/2018 23:55

@adampayne26
Are ERG MPs gonna cave in and back May’s deal? Government figures increasingly confident that they will. One minister tells me the threat of another referendum has “scared” Brexiteers into backing May, and others are thinking about ministerial ambitions.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2018 00:02

Nick Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
Reminder: There will still be a NI specific protocol in the Withdrawal Agreement so if a future PM decides to leave the UK-wide customs arrangement there’s a fallback border solution. What‘s being created is an additional customs bridge not a replacement for Commission backstop.

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HurricaneFliss · 04/11/2018 03:00

Oh FFS - what are the EU up to? They've been playing hard ball for over 2 years now but suddenly they're giving us concessions? I'm actually getting to the point where I don't care if we leave now I'm not really but wish I was

Hazardswan · 04/11/2018 07:31

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-customs-deal-hard-border-ireland-backstop-avoid-speculation-may-eu-a8616521.html

Downing Street dismisses speculation of concessions but don't worry because everything is like 95% agreed.

bellinisurge · 04/11/2018 07:32

In the parallel universe where I want a shit deal to avoid the chaos, I also can't wait to see ERG numpties stare down the barrel of a metaphoric gun and blink to allow it.
To steal from Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy again, they'll get to travel on the gravy train for years wittering on about how they represent true Brexit if we get BINO. Nice little earner for them.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2018 07:34

Sam Lowe @samuelmarclowe
As predicted, a political declaration that leaves open all possible future relationships (so therefore locks in nothing) is now being sold as a win.

Me and @AgataGostynska have a piece out about the political declaration on Monday (that I kinda wish we had published yesterday, now) - so keep an eye out if you’re into that kind of thing.

(To be clear, the government doesn’t really have a choice here. The political declaration was never going to be binding, and ambiguity might even work to May’s advantage, ultimately.)

The Columnist @sime0nstylites
Morning. Some quick thoughts on the Tim Shipman (best informed journalist re the Conservatives IMV) piece in the ST.

It’s rather presented (except the DD part at the end) as good Brexit news for the govt. Though worth noting that the ‘senior sources say...’ are (by implication) rather likely to be from a wing of, well, the government.

Anyway, let’s look at the various elements. Apparently, the CU for the whole UK is done. Is this good news? Not wholly. Not if you’re a free trading Brexiteer. And wasn’t there a manifesto pledge not to...

Apparently also TM is on course to agree a Future Economic Partnership (FEP - new acronym alert) that will keep open the prospect of a Canada type Deal as well as a Chequers type Deal AND is something of the order of fifty pages long.

Re the length of the doc (ie 50 pages vs something shorter and more ‘vague), treat with caution. I can write you something very vague in fifty pages and something very detailed in 1 page.

As for keeping Canada and Chequers open, this is, I suspect, a clue that the document will not be definitive but will instead simply ‘outline how a new trade deal would balance market access and border checks...’

The ‘secret plan’ will allegedly also include an ‘exit clause’ for the CU. I will fall off my column in surprise if this is a unilateral option and if there’s no backstop provision.

And...it will apparently also enable GB vs NI regulatory checks to occur ‘in-market’ vs at a border. Will this work for the DUP? I’m sceptical - surely their fundamental point is there should be no difference vs where the difference is checked.

Much of this has been rumoured for a while. Is this a good deal? I rather think not.

More on that in otiose detail here:

1. The curious case of the unpopular Brexit Deal that everyone seems to think will happen. Why it will, why it might not, and, most importantly, why it shouldn’t. [Thread]

2. It’s difficult to think of any of the Brexit tribes to whom the rumoured Brexit deal will positively appeal. Putting it differently, will anyone say, “Wow, that’s a really great deal.”

3. It’s greatest attribute is that it involves, well, leaving. That of course makes it unpalatable to Remainers although if that train hasn’t quite left the station, the doors are shut, the whistle’s blown, and the wheels are ‘a rolling.

4. It’s second greatest attribute is that it is, well, a deal. Aside from extreme Brexit enthusiasts, No Deal is a scenario of such biblical terribleness that anything that isn’t it is a half decent result.

5. It’s third greatest attribute is that it involves a transition period, albeit one that is too short. Let’s savour for a moment the irony of a deal being good because it mandates a period of no change.

6. But does anyone think this Deal is going to be a good deal let alone a great deal?

7. Strike 1. It’s unlikely to provide any clear view about the post transition arrangement with the EU. This is unhelpful, to say the least, for anyone who has cause to be concerned about the future relationship (NB this includes all impacted businesses).

8. Strike 2. It will involve an Irish backstop. Depending on your view, that may or may not be a good thing, but the backstop condition will almost certainly be operative (see Strike 1, also, there’s not enough time) and that means...

9. Strike 2 (Cont) ...Either a ‘temporary’ customs union, a concept generally loathed by Leavers) or an extension to transition, perpetuating the expedient but dissatisfactory combination of effective membership without representation.

10. Strike 3. There’s probably a majority out there for ‘just get on with it so we don’t have to talk about it anymore.’ But I have bad news. This Brexit is unclear, imprecise and unstable. We’re going to be talking about it for years and years to come.

11. Does the Deal represent the ‘will of the people’? Now I’m a will of the people sceptic but does anyone think that an indeterminate transition, no clue re future relationship, and possible temporary CU Brexit is remotely close to what people voted for?

12. And yet, here is this not very good and quite possibly bad deal that many smart and thoughtful people think is going to happen. And they’re probably right. Why is that?

13. Despite the government’s shambolic ineptitude, none of the opposing forces have managed to come up with a plan that actually works.

14. The ERG’s plan falls over because of the backstop. The Boles EEA plan is failing because of ‘temporary’. The 2nd referendum plan has, so far, failed to generate enough public support. And as for Labour - let’s be generous and say there’s a direction rather than a plan.

15. This is a bit ironic (maybe sad, possibly tragic) because there are other plans that actually work. Michel Barnier has a whole diagram of them. You might not like them - Canada + backstop, Norway etc - but they do actually work.

16. And who’s to say that any of the actually workable alternatives are better or worse than the planned deal or more or less representative of the will of the people, or, god forbid, actually a good deal. We have never really had that debate.

17. Instead, the apparently compelling argument for the Deal is that if parlt doesn’t vote for it then there’ll be No Deal, and, ironically, we now seem to be told by govt that quite apart from not being a walk in the park, No Deal would be a 1970s disaster movie type event.

18. I am astonished that people are buying the argument that the only alternative to the Deal is No Deal.

19. People argue there are no other deals available. But that’s simply not the case. They say there’s not enough time. But we have until March and there’s the possibility of A50 extension or even revocation.

20. Apparently, the EU will not negotiate a different deal. Is that true? Yes and no. Will the EU negotiate a deal that involves compromising their red lines or worsening their position? No. Will they negotiate a different deal that’s consistent with their objectives? Yes.

21. Instead, we’re staring at the miserable alternative of a deal that no one seems to like. The govt position is no better than, ‘It’s the best that we could do.’ But, really, is it the best we can do? We can, and we must, do better. /ends

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