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Brexit

Westminstenders: Crisis. What Crisis

983 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 18:12

October is slowly rolling into November.

Your eyes, rightly, will be distracted by events the other side of the pond.

It won't be good and it won't be pretty and it will have an impact on what happens here in relation to Brexit in one way or another.

May seems to have headed off trouble makers for now. But that means nothing if she can't get a deal through parliament.

And if you think we are in anyway prepared for No Deal I'd like whatever drugs you are taking. That way lies only disorder and to put it bluntly, deaths.

We MUST find a deal, any deal to prevent that. Desperation is the final ingredients in this mess. Who will blink as they realise what's at stake?

The problem is though, is too few MPs have grasped what's at state, such is the quality of our elected representatives. And that's the truly terrifying bit.

If they can't work out the risk of no deal, they certainly not equipped to handle the fall out of no deal.

If you want to shit yourself anymore, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you that the minister responsible for hauling all your food and medical supplies in the event if no deal, is Mr Christopher Grayling.

Start praying.

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mathanxiety · 27/10/2018 23:25

Lol about the palm trees in Dublin. When asked what I miss most about Ireland, in freezing Chicago, I always say, 'The palm trees.' People are flabbergasted.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 00:03

This reminds me of the conspiracy theory the USA hard right had about the Sandy Hook school massacre:
rather than accept that their beloved right to bear arms had enabled a psycho to murder children, they claim the bereaved parents were paid actors and have even hounded them.

Here, Trumpets have descended again into conspiracy fantasies after that Trump fan was arrested for the pipe bombs.
They think it's all a liberal plot

The hard right everywhere seem to have this in common:
a refusal to believe in events that discredit their beliefs and instead taking refuge in absurd conspiracies against them by "liberals"

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/26/trump-supporters-sceptical-about-pipe-bomb-arrest

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 00:04

Don't forget the clocks go back Sunday 3am
So an extra hour in bed, or to go jogging

woman11017 · 28/10/2018 00:11

But given events in the UK alone over the last 2 years its understandable. No less shocking mind
Security has been a necessity in north European synagogues for many decades.

Hazardswan · 28/10/2018 00:13

jogging

Hmm

Trumpets are every whiny little man you've ever met, unable to face the consequences of the toxic environment they've created. To paraphrase a MN classic we don't have a far right problem we have a male problem.

woman11017 · 28/10/2018 00:17

@AdamWagner1
I hear the shooter may have been motivated by anger that the Tree of Life synagogue had a programme helping refugees. I am proud to say that my own synagogue has a programme helping destitute asylum seekers where I will be volunteering next week as I do regularly. #Moreincommon

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 00:43

A wonderful programme from you and your synagogue, woman 💐

Thomasinaa · 28/10/2018 00:45

There's the same conspiracy theory online about the Dunblane massacre.

mathanxiety · 28/10/2018 01:40

They are trying to undermine the idea that there is such a thing as verifiable reality.

I don't think they all believe that it's all a left wing plot or whatever the lie of the moment may be (some are stupid enough to buy it all, of course) but the brains responsible for the 'alternative facts' are subtle enough to know what they are doing.

Plonkysaurus · 28/10/2018 05:25

Trump completely legitimised hate and ignorance in the far right with just two words:

Fake news.

Suddenly those who held a different opinion were no longer just different, they were part of a liberal conspiracy against you and everything you stand for. Extremism 101. And critical thinking is on vacation globally.

That indie front page gives me hope.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 07:09

Protesters blame Five Star Movement mayor Virginia Raggi for failing to clean up Rome

Once an "anti-establishment" party wins office and actually has to do what it promised,
shock horror, it's as bad or worse than the old parties

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/28/rome-says-enough-thousands-rally-to-denounce-citys-decaying-state

borntobequiet · 28/10/2018 07:10

I think TM May have been saved by the march, when hardline Brexiteers began to realise the fury that would be generated by a no deal. As it was on the HOC doorstep, they couldn’t avoid seeing it.
I’m thinking of a one woman People’s Vote campaign outside my local supermarket over the next few weeks - nearly did it after Salzburg but it was raining and the precinct was pretty deserted...

Peregrina · 28/10/2018 07:23

I think TM May have been saved by the march,

Well, if she does manage to pull something off which doesn't destroy the country, and enables it to carry on as before June 2016, she will earn some grudging respect from me. Only grudging because I think she could have handled it so much better. She could have said that Cameron's promises were worthless, that Parliament decided and immediately commissioned a cross party research group to travel the country and really look at what the issues are...

I admit May puzzles me - when she talks about the Just About Managing, I don't doubt that she's sincere, but she has a strange way of executing it. I suspect it's because her own horizons and experience are too limited.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2018 07:49

The Associated Press @ ap
A gunman who expressed hatred of Jews exploited doors that were unlocked for worship to target a Pittsburgh synagogue, killing 11 people and wounding

If you want to know how much trouble American is in, look no further than this tweet.

However if one of the world leading news agencies blaming doors for a mass murder rather say, I dunno, murderers or even guns hasn't scared you enough

Theres this

edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/08/28/donald-trump-warns-of-violence-midterms-sot-tsr-vpx.cnn
Trump warns of violence if GOP loses midterms
President Donald Trump warned there will be "violence" if the Republicans lose their majority in Congress as a result of the 2018 midterms, in a recording now heard by CNN.

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Plonkysaurus · 28/10/2018 08:00

So... basically if there's an open door we have carte blanche to kill someone?

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 08:06

and Trump said the synagogue should have had weapons inside

So, their own fault if they don't want to worship inside an armed fortress

lonelyplanetmum · 28/10/2018 08:06

Great initiative Borntobe !** Isn't there a local group who can send some one to make it half a dozen rather than one? I'd join you if I were nearer!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2018 08:11

Anti-extremism commissioner: UK towns ‘polarised’ by rise of far right

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/27/uk-towns-polarised-by-far-right-sara-khan-counter-extremism-commissioner

“Councils across the country raised the impact the far-right demonstrations have on whole towns, exploiting tensions and stoking division."
...
One youth worker from the south of England told Khan of his fears that
a “whole generation of vulnerable children” could be lost to the far right.

Elsewhere, a local education group said it had seen
increasing numbers of children making racist and extremist statements in schools.
...
Khan said her investigations had detected a sense
Britain was on the cusp of a fresh wave of rightwing extremism:
“This backs up what experts have been telling me – that we are seeing a new wave of the far right: modernised, professionalised and growing; supported by a frightening amount of legal online extremist material.”
...
Home Office data shows that white people now constitute the largest proportionn* of arrested terrorism suspects for the first time in 13 years.

indistinct · 28/10/2018 08:32

Sorry to intrude but does anyone know when the next major anti-Brexit London/elsewhere march is?

1tisILeClerc · 28/10/2018 08:55

While it would be a terrifying and horrible 'experiment' I think I see a bit of a parallel with Germany of the past who had to be severely 'beaten' to modify their ways, and who as a consequence have benefited greatly since. I feel the German mindset is subtly different to 'British' in that they understand the value of treating all their citizens well and that by having the 'poor' actually being above the bread line is a civilised way to live, and those with more money are more inclined to support them.
Something on the lines that those in 'luxury' would prefer the neighbours to be 'comfortably off' rather than beggars. For a start it reduces crime.
I am not sure 'remaining' is an option any more, too many ships have been burned. Don't forget that a significant part of industry is prevented from announcing their intentions by NDAs and with the degree of incompetence by the government it simply does not have enough money to pull any suitable 'rabbits' out of hats to make things great any time soon.
There are enough 'pockets' of hatred across the UK to destroy many cities/towns and the police and armed forces combined are insufficient to stop it, assuming the government has the will to try, which given the free reign by some Tory MPs to suggest massively damaging law changes must raise some doubts.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2018 08:58

sigh

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/D93CF110-DA19-11E8-9DC6-A299178189BC
Labour uses NDAs to gag staff over sex claims
The party is using legal deals it has previously condemned to stop ex-employees discussing sexual and racist bullying

Dozens of former Labour Party staff have been forced to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) that ban them from speaking out about sexist and racist behaviour by members — despite Jeremy Corbyn pledging to ban such contractual clauses.

Officials who have been paid off since Corbyn’s allies seized control of party headquarters have signed clauses that stop them going public on the scale and severity of sexual harassment, bullying and anti-semitism cases against members.

Adam Wagner @adamwagner1
1/ This is an important story. Some ex-Labour staff allegedly (they haven't denied it) were made to sign non-disclosure agreements stopping them revealing what was going on in the Party and how it was handling anti-Semitism and sexual harassment claims

2/ This is something I have been hearing for a while from a few different sources, that the compliance unit of the party, which filters all allegations against members, has been a total mess for years and almost everyone left. Nb Labour haven't denied the NDAs.

3/ I am pretty confident that there is a big story underneath all this, based on what I have heard especially re political interference with the complaints process. Will be interesting to see what happens to those NDAs (which Labour said they are against in #metoo type cases)

Without transparency of government and political parties there is no democracy

Westminstenders: Crisis. What Crisis
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RedToothBrush · 28/10/2018 09:20

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
^NEW: Chancellor Philip Hammond tells @SophyRidgeSky on @RidgeOnSunday

“If we don't get a deal… we would need to take a different approach to the future of Britain's economy... frankly we'd need to have a new budget that set out a different strategy for the future.”^

Uhoh.

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prettybird · 28/10/2018 09:24

There goes the extra money for the NHS Hmm

Actually, strike that Sad. There goes the NHS Angry

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 28/10/2018 09:26

The number of NDAs is terrifying. I honestly had no idea so much was being hidden from the public.

Really scary shit in that guardian article. The sheer number of young people being left behind is scary. The places they go to when society has nothing to offer them is equally scary.

DGRossetti · 28/10/2018 09:32

www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-a-self-destructive-madness-grips-the-uk-as-a-no-deal-brexit-looms/

Quoted below (CBA with MNs idiosyncratic ways ...)

Personal fantasies, such as playing in the Stanley Cup final or singing a Mozart aria at the Metropolitan Opera, are enduring but generally harmless. National daydreams, such as the collective fantasy of Brexit that has gripped roughly half of the British nation for several years, can cause serious damage to millions of people.

That was pretty much the message delivered by John Major, the former Tory British prime minister in a speech and newspaper article this week. He called Brexit “a colossal misjudgment” which would “damage personal and national wealth” and he attacked members of his own party and Brexiteers in Theresa May’s cabinet: “They persuaded a deceived population to vote to be weaker and poorer. That will never be forgotten – nor forgiven.”

Mr. Major was never a big supporter of the EU, either in office or in retirement. He opposed the single currency and the EU’s free movement of people, but he was and remains a classic Tory pragmatist and his speech is replete with warnings about the madness that has engulfed British politics.

Unfortunately, his target audience, right-wing Tories and the vast hinterland of working-class Labour supporters who voted “leave” in the referendum are barely aware that Brexit could have negative consequences.

On Wednesday, EU leaders and Ms. May failed to agree on a way forward at a crucial EU summit where the Brexit deal was meant to be sealed. Cynics talk of cans being kicked down the road but the reality is that the legislation that must be put in place for a Brexit deal will take months to get through a hopelessly divided U.K. Parliament and the EU. By December it will be too late even if both sides are in agreement and even if, miraculously, Ms. May persuades the Brexiteers in her cabinet to make more concessions.

Britain will on March 29 fall out of the EU into a weird world of isolation, cut off from its main trading partner and with no agreed status in the World Trade Organization.

Real stuff is now happening that might wake up the fantasists. While Ms. May and the EU leaders engaged in nervous chit-chat in Brussels, the French government published legislation to cope with a “no-deal” Brexit. The draft law, which would be rushed through the French legislature as a presidential edict, states that the British will be “third country citizens” who would require a visa to enter France and a residency permit to remain in France. The draft bill deals with controls on goods and people at the border as well as veterinary and phytosanitary controls for animals and plants.

Plainly, France has kicked off disaster-planning scenarios. Also on Wednesday, Britain’s hapless head of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs told the U.K. Parliament that the French were refusing to help his staff plan for a no-deal Brexit. His department has been given powers to commandeer lanes on the main highway to the Channel for queues of trucks held up by French customs checks. The French border officials say there is nothing to discuss while the EU is still negotiating with the United Kingdom.

Even now, after two years of Brexit talks, it is astonishing that a senior U.K. civil servant could imagine that he could make private arrangements with French officials about a border controlled by a supranational authority – the EU. It would be as if Mexico sought to do a private deal over migration with California without consulting Washington, but it tells you something about the British and why they remain oblivious to how the EU works and why Brexit is failing.

In part, it is because England has always been utterly transactional in its dealings with foreigners and in its own legal and constitutional arrangements. It explains the astonishing blindness of the Brexiteers who never imagined that the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic could be a problem if the United Kingdom left the EU. That extraordinary arrogance lies at the core of the Brexit problem; Ms. May has promised to honour the Northern Ireland peace agreement, agreeing that there will be no border infrastructure, but she has been unable to think up a workable alternative to the EU’s suggestion that Northern Ireland remain, in all but name, part of the EU.

Meanwhile, the news gets worse: U.K. GDP growth now significantly lags that of the EU, industrial production and investment has fallen sharply, the property market sags and flagship firms, such as Jaguar Land Rover, plan to shift production to Europe. With glorious cynicism, The Daily Telegraph, a strongly Brexit-supporting newspaper, suggests that private investors can profit from the sharp fall in sterling caused by a no-deal Brexit by investing in foreign, dollar-based funds.

For the people who dreamed up Brexit, its patriotism was always a lie, an appeal to a national myth of struggle and victory – Churchill’s “sunlit uplands,” the defeat of the Spanish Armada, the Empire. What they wanted was a low-tax, offshore Singapore, conveniently ignoring the real British economy.

What we are witnessing may be a nation, not just going into economic recession but a regression into political or cultural infantilism. The centre ground of politics has completely disappeared; the mad, the bad and the fools are now in charge.