Immigration rules after brexit

[Doubletrouble99]

I for one am really pleased with today's report from the Migration Advisory Committee.
They have outlined exactly what I've been saying all along in that I was against FOM because I feel it is prejudice against people from other parts of the world. I'm really happy that they are saying we should treat everyone the same no matter where they come from.

I would have liked them to have gone further though and answered the questions about how we deal with unskilled labour and seasonal labour.

You have to consider that the UK has to make it desirable for skilled professionals to come here. Given that the UK is 'washing it's dirty laundry' in public many will be thinking twice about even bothering to apply.

It's going to sound really horrible but racists won't necessarily have a problem with it: it'll just mean more people to look down on! What they really hate is the idea of a foreigner - any foreigner- somehow 'equal' to them and that you can't treat like dirt...

LeClerc - I know we have always had the ability to change the immigration rules if we had wanted but no party was ever going to do that so this is one of the great benefits of having a big jolt like Brexit to give us a kick up the ass and get on with it. They can all blame Brexit.

The MAC report doesn't say that there should be no preferential treatment for EU migrants, it says that there is no a-priori case for having preferential treatment unless that preferential treatment is negotiated as part of a trade deal (which is not within the remit of the commission).

Anyhow, its highly likely that many future FTA's will lead to favorable migration conditions for workers from these countries.

We'll be back to square one, so we will not be treating all workers fairly.

You might want to see business encouraged to train its own workforce but no one in Gov is suggesting this.

doubletrouble although you may not have the same motivations, you share the Kippers' side as now every foreigner will be discriminated against. Equally.

I hope a system like this might help to put paid to some of the stupid racist views of many as they would have much less to gripe about.

Racists aren't complaining about fair systems they are complaining about the presence of foreign people on British streets full stop. Racism in the UK existed long before membership of the EU.

From the second page of the Foreword:

"We do not express a view on whether immigration should be part of the EU negotiations."

If you think having an immigration policy is 'discriminatory' then I would suggest that every country in the world is discriminatory Quietrebel.

Ghost - What I am trying to say is that this report has dispelled the idea that EU immigrants are a drain on the state so the people who suggest this have had their comeuppance.

I agree that immigration should not be part of the Brexit negotiations.

doubletrouble Well, for Kippers / racists it's all about being able to discriminate anyway.
Beyond racism, ending FOM is not just about letting people in. It's also very much about the terms of their residence and employment. Today an employer can't discriminate against an EU employee. EU employees enjoy the same rights as native Brits. Not so non EU. So yes, it's about discrimination as well.
That is also why EU cits are leaving in droves- or naturalising.

Ghost - What I am trying to say is that this report has dispelled the idea that EU immigrants are a drain on the state so the people who suggest this have had their comeuppance.

Except this was known over 2 years ago. Not really sure why we needed another report to tell us what we already knew ? It can't have been to educate Brexiteers, as they won't be educated.

Today an employer can't discriminate against an EU employee. EU employees enjoy the same rights as native Brits

ironically, post Brexit an employer will be able to discriminate. They can choose to employ an EU citizen (who can freely travel and work anywhere in the EU27) over a UK citizen (who won't be able to if there's no deal)

Ghost - What I am trying to say is that this report has dispelled the idea that EU immigrants are a drain on the state so the people who suggest this have had their comeuppance.

Lots of things wrt Brexit have been dispelled but Brexiteers ain't listening.

Economics was only one part of intra-European FOM. There were so many opportunities to move to another EU country for cultural or educational reasons that if the EU reciprocates for UK citizens will make it very much harder for anyone to spend time living and working in Europe, be that a 20 year old working in a beach bar, a 35 year old wanting to improve their language skills or a 65 year-old retiring. I'm sure your average leave voter had no inclination to do these things though so they won't give a shit if the rest of us can't either.

Eroding anyone's rights is never positive for the rest of the community. I know an immigration lawyer of Asian heritage who is the fiercest remainer. She thinks making life harder for EU citizens will NOT help her non EU clients. And she's in the immigration business so in theory should profit from it...

Also consider what EU citizens living in the UK must feel reading the headlines. Seen as some sort of problem or burden. This is an abhorrent time in the UK's history.

Economics was only one part of intra-European FOM.

Economics had nothing to do with the origins of FoM. FoM was made part of the core of the European project to ensure we never had to experience a country imprisoning it's own citizens ever again.

Any economic benefits from FoM (and there are plenty) were a happy by product of being decent human beings.

The UNHCR Convention on statelessness is a related initiative which ensures a country cannot remove a persons "final" citizenship (and thus render them stateless and unable to flee).

I'll never stop reminding people that the British generally have not the same experiences out of WW2 that the rest of Europe did. Which is probably why some don't half like to bang on about it.

Even now, you have Brexiteers bleating on about FoM as if it were somehow dreamt up at the opera and somehow "up for grabs". It's not. It's baked into the DNA of the EEC/EC/EU. It's why Norway, Switzerland and Iceland have had to sign up to it.

And let's remind the Brexiteers (which credits that they were ever listening) even the mighty Swiss with a WILL OF THE PEOPLE referendum of their own were forced to back down and accept FoM .... or FOAD.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#The_2014_referendum

You'd think Brexiteers - wide readers and deep thinkers they are - would have factored this into their bullshit.

Also, the report focuses on immigration into the UK, and doesn't take into account the benefits to UK migrants elsewhere in the EU (students, workers, pensioners, etc.).

Also consider what EU citizens living in the UK must feel reading the headlines.

Well, those that are left. And since the OP likes fairness, it's probably balanced by how the UK citizens living in the EU are feeling right now too - unloved by the English.

Hasn't UKIP said they want zero net immigration

One of my friend's Mums (who hates Farage) proactively recruited Leave support amongst family and friends, and still does. Her priority is zero Muslim immigration.She thinks Leave is somehow a first step in 'repatriating' any Muslims including those born here.

Somehow because planes, trains and boats most visibly arrive from and across the EU she sees all immigration as an EU matter.

Once we have left, if immigration continues as it will- she says it is still an EU issue as "they won't take ' them' so we have to."

Reasoned explanation with her is impossible. Ironically she has a brown grandchild adopted from overseas, but from a predominantly Catholic country. Equally ironically two of her other children, live, work and own homes overseas.

One of my friend's Mums (who hates Farage) proactively recruited Leave support amongst family and friends, and still does. Her priority is zero Muslim immigration.She thinks Leave is somehow a first step in 'repatriating' any Muslims including those born here.

So a bit dim then.

You better not tell her that Brexit means more brown people not less!

The report about Switzerland has the expression 'Guillotine clause'.
Unfortunately it refers to cancelling of 'freedoms' and not effective ways of dealing with shabby politicians.

Also consider what EU citizens living in the UK must feel reading the headlines.

Well, being one of them I can tell you: pretty crap.
I'm one of the hardcore fans who opted for naturalisation. But even for me I can tell you it's not pleasant.