Foreign holiday

[wobblyduck]

I know very little about the implications of Brexit on free movement post March next year, so please forgive the naive question and if possible direct me somewhere I can learn more!

We're looking at taking a holiday in Europe 2 weeks after brexit. We would either use the Chunnel or boat to Calais. I've got 2 small children and neither would tolerate very long queues (2 hours+) to check in. Is this a silly idea? Will we need visas?

@Quietrebel

Genuine question

Why would the fact that someone renewing there German passport at the German embassy encountered a delay in finding an appointment slot not “bode well for the future”

.....
and the Telegraph article quoted - a worst case scenario from a biased sourced - is actually talking about a VISA WAIVER system not a visa regime.

@lostandfound
Perhaps I wasn't clear. If the regular workload (like passport renewals etc) already stretches the embassy, a huge increase triggered by visa requests in the thousands and thousands will probably mean that Brits traveling there will have to wait a long time to get the paperwork processed until either there's an agreement with the EU or the embassy hires more staff to cope. It's a workflow issue.

@Quiet

And that is why there will not be a visa regime

Well, i certainly hope so!

I’ve just booked a holiday to Tenerife in mid April (which I am a little bit concerned about but trying to be optimistic...)

I go to Tenerife every year, it’s the kind of place people go back to repeatedly and they like to book EARLY.

Booking last night for Easter holidays 2019 and the apartment website has a calendar so you can see where they have availability - green for available, red for booked.

All green for the whole of April.

Then booked flight - Stansted to Tenerife, school holidays.

Only four seats reserved already on the entire plane.

Never seen anything like it. The airlines must be panicking if this is typical of (non) booking patterns.

@Hairy
I really do hope your holiday happens and things go smoothly for you. Did you see any disclaimers about the possibility of no flights or any other aspects of the holiday?
Things may not be too bad but please keep an ear to the ground and act immediately if you hear any instructions you need to follow like getting visas or things that might take a while to sort out.

@wurzelburga

Things moved on in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell and those Eastern European countries joined the EU

Yes - and 30 years later things are moving on again at 23.00 on 29th March 2019, when the UK leaves the EU. The world is constantly changing, and in this case, the change means that the EU rights and privileges no longer apply to the UK.

and the Telegraph article quoted - a worst case scenario from a biased sourced - is actually talking about a VISA WAIVER system not a visa regime

You'll find similar articles in all of the newspapers around that date. I used the Telegraph link as it is usually considered to be a Brexit-supporting paper not a biased source.

Anyhow, you are technically correct, ETIAS is a Visa-waiver scheme. Instead of applying for a piece of paper that says 'This person is entitled to enter the Schengen Area' (aka a Visa), travellers apply for a (virtual) document that says 'This person is entitled to enter the Schengen Area' - so not a Visa, but a similar document that serves exactly the same purpose, costs the same and has the same restrictions. Note, travellers are applying for permission to enter, whereas until 29th March, UK citizens have the right to enter the Schengen Area. Permission can be declined - for the 30% of British men that have a criminal record, travelling to Europe is about to get a whole lot more complicated.

@Lostandfound81

The UK is indeed leaving the EU. In doing so, it is giving up a number of rights and then has to be placed into one of two Third Country categories - those that require do not visas (or can use the ETIAS visa-waiver-that's-not-a-visa scheme as it is gradually rolled out) or those countries that do require a visa. In the absence of an agreement from the EU to add the UK on to the 'No visa / ETIAS' list, then the default is that the UK goes onto the 'visa required' list. That is the consequence of 'No Deal'. Even if the UK is allowed onto the ETIAS list, ETIAS is not going to be completely rolled out until 2021, probably doesn't have the immediate capacity to accept 20 million UK applications in 6 months, it still costs a fee and it is still 'asking for permission' to enter the Schengen Area; permission that could be delayed or denied.

those that require do not visas = those that do not require visas

Consequence of “no deal”

Never. Going. To. Happen.

So as I continue to say. Storm. Teacup.

You’ll see

Lostandfound81.

I agree. And I am a remainer. And prettty pessimistic about Brexit in the short to medium term.

But I think some of the stuff on this thread is unnecessarily alarmist.

The EU is a political organisation. Decisions are made by political leaders. All realise that no deal is a lose lose situation so it won’t happen. There will be lots of missed deadlines and brinkmanship but a deal will be agreed

Not planning any travel outside the U.K. after Feb 2019.
Spain in November, Portugal in Feb. (This despite holding dual nationality.)
After that, heaven knows. Pleased that some can be so sanguine in the face of a possible No Deal Brexit, good luck to you.

Me too a Remainer

Also a realist

If a deal is done then of course all will be fine. Most comments on here relate to the no deal scenario which has a very real chance of being as described if it happens. Really.

1tisILeClerc thank you. Fingers crossed.

Like others on here I am hopeful. I tend to think that ‘they surely can’t let it come to no flights, no ferries etc’.

Though given the way ‘they’ have been approaching things so far, it’s not exactly filling me with confidence.

My flights were £800 cheaper than Easter 2018, but it’s only a bargain if there’s actually a plane to get on!!

Aeroplanes.

There are 9 freedoms of the air.

After leaving the EU, those agreements covered by Single European Sky will be gone.

To fly, we will have to negotiate ALL of them with each and every European country to which we want to fly.

This will take a lot of time. We don’t have that.

This is ridiculous.

Getting those 'freedoms of the air' will have taken many years and a lot of negotiation but the important bit is that there were existing treaties that had grown up 'organically' with the growth of the airline industry.
Flying in the late 50's and 60's was quite a rarity, much by business people.
That is now likely to be ripped up and everything will need renegotiation.
Mr Grayling, he of the train fiasco is in charge I think.....

To fly, we will have to negotiate ALL of them with each and every European country to which we want to fly.

In the event of a no deal, the EU won't negotiate individual areas - no cherry picking (which is the current rule on negotiations too ...) . The UK will have to negotiate a complete agreement covering everything in one go. So aviation will just be part of that.

I suspect it's most likely that UK visitors will fall under ETIAS when it's up and running - which means paying our 7 euro fees to the EU. Until then we'd probably have the same rights as the US etc which allows visa free travel for up to 90 days.

Hooray for the Brexit plan of no longer sending money to our Brussels overlords .

Re German passports - I think German nationals renewing their passports in the UK always have to do it in person at the embassy or consulate?

Aviation - the EU aviation deal proposed back in January (according to this article) offered a deal only on the first 4 freedoms, with a possibility of the 5th freedom, ie the right to land in one EU country and then fly on to another.

Funny how the government hasn't issued its No Deal paper on aviation yet ...

Since all the technical papers waste the first half page or more explaining that we are aiming for a deal but here is some 'on hold music' while we work out what the hell we are doing' it makes you wonder what is actually going on.

Heard a chap on the radio talking about dialysis, which he needs until he can have a kidney transplant but , in the meantime, he and his wife do like to holiday in the EU.

They book into a hospital in the EU country where they are holidaying and he has his dialysis free of charge with his E111 card.

That would not be possible if the nightmare that is brexit actuallly happens.

More than 1.8 million people in England have diagnosed chronic kidney disease

I hope for their sake that they did not vote leave.

No debit or credit cards usable in EU after no deal brexit.

@DeborahMeaden
Is this correct??

@JasonJHunter
Wait til Brits realise that their UK bank issued debit and credit cards WILL NOT WORK inside the EU after a no deal Brexit! Direct from the horses mouth today... that's the thing about Rules based economies.. they play…

‏ @cmcknz77
Replying to @DeborahMeaden
Yup. Visa and Mastercard currently have legal and FS agreements with the EU applying to all 28 members of the EU. If we leave the EU the UK will need to renegotiate those agreements in order for our cards to work and until those agreements are signed cards will not work.

The EU is a political organisation. Decisions are made by political leaders. All realise that no deal is a lose lose situation so it won’t happen. There will be lots of missed deadlines and brinkmanship but a deal will be agreed

I kind of agree with you as I don't see how you can have a situation with no legal certainty.

And the Greek bail-out was brinkmanship on steroids.

HOWEVER politicians on both sides seem to be mired in dogma and not what's best for the people. So I am not sure what will happen.

news.sky.com/story/amp/eu-airports-unable-to-cope-with-safety-risks-of-no-deal-brexit-leaked-memo-reveals-11502372

I'm assuming I would get a refund for flights and package holidays that don't go ahead, or a credit on a
2020 holiday . Just won't get compensation. The T&C on my April 2019 booking say no compensation (assume that means if book flight only and then try to claim for lost accommodation costs). A refund is different to a compensation payment I believe.