Foreign holiday

[wobblyduck]

I know very little about the implications of Brexit on free movement post March next year, so please forgive the naive question and if possible direct me somewhere I can learn more!

We're looking at taking a holiday in Europe 2 weeks after brexit. We would either use the Chunnel or boat to Calais. I've got 2 small children and neither would tolerate very long queues (2 hours+) to check in. Is this a silly idea? Will we need visas?

From 30th March, UK citizens will require a Schengen Visa in order to travel to the EU. As this visa will need to be obtained in person in advance from the Embassy of a EU country, are the Embassies geared up to do this? Will the Spanish Embassy have 3,000 - 4,000 staff ready to process 13 million applications before the summer? Does the French Embassy have the capacity to handle 10 million applications?

The reverse question is probably more revealing. Are UK embassies set up to issue visas across the EU27 (if needed) to all those tourists we think will be coming ? You know - to spend that lovely money we say we want ?

Or will we have to suspend any visa requirements in order to allow so many people in ?

Uk citizens never needed a visa to travel to Europe before we joined the EU. Western Europeans did not need a visa to come to UK either.

US citizens do not need visas to travel to the EU. Nor do nationals of most 3rd countries. Visas are only required for citizens of countries where travellers tend to overstay and/or are considered to represent a security problem.

Why on earth would the EU seek to impose a visa regime on the UK?

From the idea that stag and hen parties from the UK go to places that used to be nice in Europe and trash them there may be a 'reverse' where European far right groups will go to the UK for 'punch up' parties with the local 'foreign haters'. A bit like 'sealed knot reenactments but with real hatred.

Quietrebel

German friend had to wait at least 2 months before getting a slot for a passport renewal. It's apparently very busy. Doesn't bode well.

Why did she need a slot for a passport renewal?

wurzelburga

Uk citizens never needed a visa to travel to Europe before we joined the EU. Western Europeans did not need a visa to come to UK either.

US citizens do not need visas to travel to the EU. Nor do nationals of most 3rd countries. Visas are only required for citizens of countries where travellers tend to overstay and/or are considered to represent a security problem.

Why on earth would the EU seek to impose a visa regime on the UK?

^this^

As I said... Storm. Teacup.

If i were you I would either holiday later in the year, go somewhere in the UK, or wait until nearer the time to book when questions (hopefully) are answered. I suspect even if a deal is struck there will be teething problems unless it's simply delayed altogether

@DGRossetti

Uk free to do what hell it likes

So if not in a position to be able to do that, it won’t implement (not that it would on any event)

My point was just in relation to embassies being already overworked. Extra work such as a huge increase in visa requests etc may take longer....

Quietrebel

They’d only have all that extra work if the UK imposed a load more visa restrictions. Highly unlikely and they wouldn’t of didn’t have the infrastructure in place.

Why did she need a slot for a passport renewal?

Updating biometrics ?

Uk citizens never needed a visa to travel to Europe before we joined the EU. Western Europeans did not need a visa to come to UK either

That was then - this is now. The UK has voted to rip up all existing and previous agreements at 23.00 on 29th March. You know, Brexit means Brexit.

US citizens do not need visas to travel to the EU. Nor do nationals of most 3rd countries. Visas are only required for citizens of countries where travellers tend to overstay and/or are considered to represent a security problem

Irrelevant - on 29th March the UK becomes a Third Country, and in the absence of any agreement that waives the visa requirement, UK citizens will require a visa.

Why on earth would the EU seek to impose a visa regime on the UK?

Because that is the legal position - as explained ad nauseum to Brexiters who are constantly astonished to discover that leaving the EU means that they can no longer rely on the EU's rules and regulations to enjoy just the bits that they liked. The EU is not imposing visa restrictions - it is the UK that is removing itself from the 'no visa required' list.

Why on earth would the EU seek to impose a visa regime on the UK?

This is the 4th time I've posted these ...

Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 of 15 March 2001 listing the third countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those whose nationals are exempt from that requirement

eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32001R0539

Regulation (EU) No 576/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 12 June 2013 on the non-commercial movement of pet animals and repealing Regulation (EC) No 998/2003 Text with EEA relevance

eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32013R0576

(I bet again, no one reads them).

@DGRossetti

She got a new fingerprint?

Why on earth would the EU seek to impose a visa regime on the UK?

People keep referring back to travel before the common market and assume it will all go back to how things were then.

Visiting a Schengen country has moved on from then, in most cases if you are only staying for less than 90 days, everything will be fine.

Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 of 15 March 2001 listing the third countries whose nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those whose nationals are exempt from that requirement

just to add that if we do end up "no deal" the UK automatically becomes a 3rd country. Just like we always wanted, apparently. Let's hope we aren't treated alphabetically, and find ourselves behind the A-V countries ....

@Havanananana

Uk is not removing itself from any such list.

Australians, for example, do not need a tourist visa to enter France. They aren’t in the EU

lostanfound
Usually you don't just show up at an embassy or consulate. You have to make an appointment. That's all.

She got a new fingerprint?

I dunno. As a sovereign state, Germanys passport regulations are a matter for Germany, which - not being German - I'm not au fait with.

But first-time, or verifying biometrics might require application in person. Or it might just be a German oddity that they check passport renewals with the same attention they check initial applications.

Just because we do things in a certain way in the UK, it doesn't necessarily follow every country does it that way.

Australians, for example, do not need a tourist visa to enter France. They aren’t in the EU

but have they an agreement with the EU which makes them not a 3rd country ?

But what’s your point?

Your German friend struggled to get an appointment to renew her German passport. And you read in to that that it doesn’t bode well.

Why? That was the German embassy.

Why australians don't need visas

www.etiasvisa.com/etias-form-application

The UK isn't a member of ETIAS, nor has it applied to join. Not sure how long it would take. Notice it's for tourist visas. Working will require additional paperwork ...

Look, it was one example of an embassy working apparently at full capacity. So, any extra work like processing 000s of visas for Brits needing to go to Germany (for example) will take longer in the first months at least until either an agreement is reached or they hire more staff.
Same might apply to the French embassy etc.

Uk citizens never needed a visa to travel to Europe before we joined the EU

Actually, they did. I distinctly remember going to the Polish Embassy to get my Visa (and to pay for my Currency Chitty) and the same process applied to Yugoslavia, Hungary, East Germany and the other Eastern European countries that are now part of the EU. Some of these states no longer exist (e.g. Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia) so the UK cannot revert to pre-EU arrangements with these.

@Lostandfound81

The UK is removing itself from the list of exempt countries (follow DJR's link to see these lists) It's ripping all 750 Agreements up on 29th March. Leave means leave - not 'Leave but can we keep the nice cherries please.'

Anyway, this is hardly new information, it has been discussed since the referendum - this from 2016 > www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/british-travellers-may-need-visas-to-travel-throughout-europe/

@havananana

That was before the fall of the wall, during the Cold War when Eastern Europe was part of the Warsaw Pact

Things moved on in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell and those Eastern European countries joined the EU.

@Havanananana

The UK is not removing itself from any “no visa required” list. It is removing itself from the EU. However there are countries that are not within the EU and no visa is required to enter EU countries