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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask if anyone know what happens with EU citizens after brexit

150 replies

BlueandYellowandRed · 14/08/2018 19:26

I'm from an EU country and have been living and working in England for 6 years now.

I just looked into getting British citizenship which apparently cost £1330. It's fine if it comes down to that I'm happy to pay for it. Although might move countries again as kind of started feeling a bit unwelcome here since the whole brexit thing took off.

Anyway I was just looking at the application and it crossed my mind that there must be millions of people in the same shoes as me and I wonder what the plan is for us after brexit?

OP posts:
Coppersulphate · 17/08/2018 23:12

Talking, I think it is outrageous to call our Prime minister a racist xenophobe. That is hate talk.
She voted remain but is carrying out Brexit as voted for by the people.
JUst because you do not agree with the Government’s policies does not make them either racist or xenophobes.

prettybird · 17/08/2018 23:16

"She is just following the will of the people orders" is such a good defence Hmm

RedNed · 18/08/2018 09:15

What a ridiculous comment @Coppersulphate Hmm

If someone is acting racist or whatever, then of course people should call them out. Especially if they are our elected officials.

Ta1kinpeace · 18/08/2018 12:49

coppersulphate
My views of Theresa May are nothing to do with Brexit.
They are to do with the way she ran the Home Office.
Hostile Environment / immigrants go home vans / Windrush / language tests / life in the UK test / sky high visa fees / including students in the immigration numbers

all firmly at her door

Havanananana · 18/08/2018 17:21

@Ta1kinpeace
Only Hostile Environment / immigrants go home vans / Windrush / language tests / life in the UK test / sky high visa fees / including students in the immigration numbers ?

I thought it might be because of:
"We all know the stories about the Human Rights Act... about the illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I am not making this up, he had a pet cat." [Of course, she was making it up and was admonished by the judges for saying so]

Or because she is only the second Home Secretary in history to be found guilty of contempt of court [and could have been heavily fined or imprisoned]

Judge Barry Cotter, QC, made the extremely rare ruling that the Home Secretary was in contempt of court.
He said there has been the “most regrettable and unacceptable behaviour” of the Secretary of State leading to an “intentional breach” of her previous undertaking to free the foreign criminal, Aziz Lamari.

Or possibly because of ‘The Home Office has left some people waiting more than 20 years for decisions on their asylum claims, in delays charities say are unacceptable and “utterly barbaric”.

Or ‘The Home Office has apologised to around 100 EU citizens living in the UK after it mistakenly sent them letters ordering them to leave the country or face being deported.’

Or maybe just because of ‘The High Court has ordered the Government to stop deporting homeless EU citizens under a controversial policy that has been ruled unlawful.’ [Note that these people, who are legally allowed to be in the UK and have committed no crime, are first arrested, then detained without trial, then deported]

Or maybe because she insultingly dismissed millions of UK citizens living abroad, in the EU and elsewhere, as 'Citizens of Nowhere'

Ta1kinpeace · 18/08/2018 17:22
Grin
GoneWishing · 20/08/2018 19:02

www.politico.eu/article/uk-will-allow-eu-citizens-to-stay-if-no-brexit-deal-nhs-benefits/

Just thought I'd share this. I truly hope it's what will happen, but we'll see, of course.

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 10:54

Personally, I'd look at how the UK government has treated it's own citizens, as a good indicator as to how it'll deal with non-UK citizens in the future.

On that basis, I'd say you are fucked. Here's the latest on how the Home Office has decided British citizens get treated.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-government-deportations-british-citizens-uk-caribbean-home-office-rudd-javid-a8501076.html

Look how they whittled the number down by applying (probably illegal - but that's the Home Office for you) retrospective and arbitrary rules.

Once again, it can't be overstated that the Windrush settlers were not "immigrants". They weren't in the UK "on a visa". They were British Citizens. As British as if they had been born there. To try and rewrite history to justify the illegal actions of the Home Office is shameful.

It should be obvious to anyone at this point that the Home Office is working to a brief hoping some of the victims will die before they're held to account. It'll be in the memos of the meetings.

Hasenstein · 22/08/2018 11:36

My (German) DW has been going through the various procedures prior to citizenship for the past 18 months. She's been here for 40 years, paid taxes, had children, run our own business, worked for charities etc.

First, she had to apply for a Permanent Residence card. This was initially rejected, on grounds including that the bank statements we submitted were for a joint account, as all our accounts are. Also, confirmation from HMRC that she'd been paying NIC since 1978 wasn't considered appropriate evidence. I think they just make things up as they go on.

The second application was accepted and the PR card issued. But, as others have mentioned, there's nothing permanent about it. If you're out of the country for more than 2 years, you lose it.

We then went through the various tests (language, Life in UK) and submitted the application for citizenship. The Home Office promptly lost her biometric data, so we had to provide these again.

Just returned from holiday to find that she's finally been accepted for citizenship. Now has to attend a "ceremony" and not happy about the oath she has to swear, but we've swallowed enough already, so a bit more pride will have to be forfeited.

It's cost us just north of £2500 and many hours of form-filling and (particularly) obtaining supporting documentation (measured in kilos by the end), driving back and forth to regional Nationality Office, nearest Post Office authorised to do biometrics. Plus having to put up with dreadfully rude treatment by some of the (outsourced) agencies we've had to deal with.

Ironically, now she can finally get a British passport, it increases the likelihood that we'll be leaving anyway. It just means that if we find we can't settle in her native country (quite likely after 40 years with no friends or social contacts there), she will at least be entitled to come back here. If we do leave, I'll be a UK citizen in the EU, so pretty much in the same boat as she's been in here.

One DS wants to live in Germany anyway and can get German citizenship by descent through his mother. The other one wants to stay here (good career and completely apolitical), so we'll be divided whatever we decide to do.

My only real worry is health insurance, as we're no spring chickens and I've got previous health issues, so private insurance may be prohibitively high. We've enquired about EHIC cards and whether they'll still apply, but of course no-one knows, so we're still in the dark about whether we'll be able to afford to live abroad.

DS1 will be back in the UK in December, prior to moving to Germany, so we'll decide then whether we move along with him and his wife. That's assuming we can sell our house with only 3 months to go before Brexit day. And that there'll be flights or ferries available.

Our previously calm and unremarkable lives have been turned upside down since the referendum and we'll be living with uncertainty whatever we decide to do. Unlike last time, at least DW will now be able to have a say on her own fate if there's another vote.

I really feel for all those who've posted on here with similar uncertainties. We're sick and tired of the whole thing and there are millions like us, unsure as to what to do for the best. My anger and contempt for those who've unthinkingly or uncaringly caused this are unbounded.

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 11:56

Our previously calm and unremarkable lives have been turned upside down since the referendum and we'll be living with uncertainty whatever we decide to do.

Which Leavers are finally starting to get. (Brexiteers, of course, never cared). Hence the cranking up of Farage, et al. They know that the decent Leavers are slowly realising what's happening and aren't happy. Spurred on by the fact that at least a few probably imagined that by now we'd be in the (Brexiteer) promised land of milk and honey and we clearly aren't.

It would be ironic if the Leaver "silent majority" starts to have sway, given that it was Richard Nixon that created the media trope of "the silent majority" as a cloak for being a crooked racist warmongering shitbag ...

Ta1kinpeace · 22/08/2018 12:07

Hasenstein
Now has to attend a "ceremony" and not happy about the oath she has to swear, but we've swallowed enough already, so a bit more pride will have to be forfeited.
I have to admit that the ceremony was the one bit of the process I remember happily.
It really was quite special
I'm not a monarchist so the oath was fingers crossed behind my back
but I was humbled by the stories of some of the other people in the room.
Go and enjoy it.

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 12:20

I wonder how the law stands on discrimination between naturalised citizens - who are obliged to swear an oath - and birth citizens who (like me) would refuse to swear such an oath if it were to be demanded of us ?

In fact why waste everyones time with an oath anyway ? After all, generally in employment and contract law, if you continue in a situation that has been explicitly defined, you are deemed to have accepted the attached conditions. Why is residing in the UK treated as different ?

It's a little bit like "signing" the Official Secrets Act. I haven't signed it. But you can bet your pom bears that if I published an official secret, I'd be prosecuted under it. Unless there's a takeaway message that generally civil servants are so thick, they need to sign it, just in case they didn't know before Hmm

Ta1kinpeace · 22/08/2018 12:22

DGRosetti
It was a source of some amusement to DH that he is allowed to refuse to swear allegiance to the Queen but I am not Grin

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 12:30

Many years ago, discussing mental illness, a friend half-joked that one thing someone who had been released from a secure mental institution had that I didn't was a piece of paper declaring them "sane".

I found it such an interesting point, I remembered it Grin

Hasenstein · 22/08/2018 12:49

Apparently we'll be getting a certificate of citizenship, too, which we can hang on the wall. Must be a lot of jealous patriots out there who'd love to have one to prove their patriotism.

Ta1kinpeace: Thanks for your cheering words, we'll definitely go along with optimistic expectations, but will also take your crossed fingers tip Grin

Ta1kinpeace · 22/08/2018 12:58

I have actually used my certificate when I needed to prove my UK residence rights while waiting for my UK passport to come through Grin

Bombardier25966 · 22/08/2018 13:08

Must be a lot of jealous patriots out there who'd love to have one to prove their patriotism.

Most of them wouldn't pass the Life in the UK test! Wink

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 13:34

Apparently we'll be getting a certificate of citizenship, too, which we can hang on the wall.

Which I don't have Sad

DGRossetti · 22/08/2018 18:42

Almost as predicted ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45270554

More than 1,000 children born in the UK to parents from eight EU countries have been refused British passport renewals because of a Home Office error.

(contd).

Makes sense to start with people that find it harder to fight back. Means by the time it's become normalised, no ones watching any more.

Yaralie · 22/08/2018 19:34

The 3.8 million EU citizens living in the UK in 2016, some of whom who had been here for twenty years or more, paying taxes and contributing to this country in many ways, were (unless they came from Malta, Cyprus or Ireland) excluded from voting in the EU referendum, which affects them more than anyone else.

Some democracy!

Ta1kinpeace · 22/08/2018 19:37

Brits who had lived abroad - including in the EU - for more than 15 years we also excluded Hmm

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 23/08/2018 13:32

I cannot comment on racism but I used to have dealings with the Home office went it was run by TM and what I saw would lead anyone to believe that it is bafflingly incompetent and deeply xenophobic. Our current government is no better IMO.

DGRossetti · 23/08/2018 13:43

I cannot comment on racism but I used to have dealings with the Home office went it was run by TM and what I saw would lead anyone to believe that it is bafflingly incompetent and deeply xenophobic

you left off "and criminal ..."

GoneWishing · 23/08/2018 15:58

@AndhowcouldIeverrefuse - DH worked for the Home Office all through TM's reign, and seethed all the way through. Although, from what I gather from his levels of seethe, it hasn't exactly improved since...

Patienceofatoddler · 23/08/2018 16:19

Our experience with the home office for seemingly simple process has been slow / frustrating and hugely stressful.

I feel for anyone who has a complicated case and has to try resolve it.

Every correspondence takes weeks literally weeks.

I personally feel everyone who voted Brexit who so dearly wants our 'sovereignty back' should also have to sit the Life in UK test and pass a B5 level in English... and pay for it off course Wink

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