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Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

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SwedishEdith · 11/04/2018 10:47

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TheElementsSong · 11/04/2018 13:32

You have to wonder if there are people who are not really able to visualise the difference between a million and a billion.

No need to wonder. There really are.

I imagine them being like Terry Pratchett's trolls counting, "One... Two... Three... Many... Lots..." Grin

See also those who decry the apparently enormously crippling sum we pay to the EU, whilst having no grasp that it is only a tiny percentage of the country's expenditure and would have a correspondingly tiny effect on [whatever hobbyhorses they want to spend the "Brexit dividend" on].

DGRossetti · 11/04/2018 14:31

You have to wonder if there are people who are not really able to visualise the difference between a million and a billion.

With each passing day, I wonder less and less.

HesterThrale · 11/04/2018 14:54

I'm getting more interested in this notion of the Brexit mandate being time-limited, or discharged.
DAGreen suggests in his 10th April blogpost that it's discharged after 29.3.18, and all kinds of possibilities are open.

Why Remainers should think beyond 29 March 2019
Brexit may not happen. The politics may change, which means the UK does not leave the EU as a legal fact on 29 March 2019.
But if that outcome is unlikely, then the issue becomes what happens at the end of the transition period.
And that debate will be better if the mandate is regarded as having been performed. Each proposal can be assessed properly.
That is why I think those few Remainers disputing there was ever a true mandate are mistaken, like generals fighting the battles of the last war.
A stronger position for those who want the UK to rejoin the EU, and for those like me who want a close Association Agreement without formal membership, will then not to deny the mandate but to accept it, and then move on.
This is not to say that anyone should “get behind” Brexit. Don’t do that, kids. Only people who believe in Brexit should get behind it.
Instead let the Leavers have their mandate, and then move beyond it.

jackofkent.com/?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=Update975onArticle50ChallengeApril112018&utm_medium=email

DGRossetti · 11/04/2018 14:58

Littlewoods shrinking operations ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43727118

lonelyplanetmum · 11/04/2018 15:53

See also those who decry the apparently enormously crippling sum we pay to the EU, whilst having no grasp that it is only a tiny percentage of the country's expenditure...

This, this, this is so true. People like my arrogant Express reading FIL who pontificates that it's 'outrageous giving 'em all our money' without grasping the budget contribution is nothing!

No appreciation of the fact it's only 1.2% of GDP.
No insight into vast benefits of membership like for financial services which account for 80% of our economy.
No insight into the effect on supply chains.
No account taken of the international co operation, support,peace, prosperity and safety net benefits the small membership fee carries.

An absurd way of seeing national economics from the perspective of an individual's domestic budget.

FIL even says things like, 'that's more money than I'll have in my lifetime'. OMG-slams head against brick wall- mine and not his.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 20:08

lonely UK net contributions are about 0.7% of GDP
Recreating all the agencies alone may cost that, due to losing economies of scale, plus experience and infrastructure

Then there is the cost of the infrastructure etc to cope with trading as a 3rd country - billions there

plus the lost trade so that UK GDP grows more slowly than otherwise

The most optimistic figure I have read from the govt impact studies is an annual 0.8% loss in GDP
So even in year 1, an overall loss
With compound interest, after 5 years that would be over 4% loss annually

whereas if we had stayed, the contributions would still be only around 0.7%

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 20:15

Costly medicines and pus in milk: a Brexit trade deal that’ll make you sick

The wealthy can avoid this crap and they won't be serving it in any HoC restaurant or bar
BUT for the rest of the country …

UK farmers will follow suit or go broke.
The US agribusiness want to dodge labelling country of origin too, to make it difficult to know what crap we are consuming
and their definition of free range, organic etc is much laxer than in the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/medicine-pus-milk-brexit-trade-chlorinated-chicken

In its report, the US government is clear that it hates the EU’s food policies.

It wants to export chlorinated chicken (meat rinsed in antimicrobial wash as an alternative to keeping and killing animals in healthy conditions),
and meat from animals stuffed with hormones, steroids, ractopamine, and endocrine disrupters (chemicals that mess with animals’ hormones and can cause cancer and birth defects).

The list goes on, with the US unhappy about the EU’s “cautious” approach to approving genetically modified goods,chemical flavourings in food and the amount of pesticide residue allowed in fruits and nuts.

They even think the amount of “somatic cells” allowed in milk in the EU is too restrictive.
The US allows more white blood cells in milk than anywhere else in the world, even though this often indicates infection in the cow

https://www.sustainweb.org/news/feb18USS_foodpoisoning/

Figures suggest that the percentage of people who fall ill with food poisoning annually is ten times higher in the US than the UK.
....
"The US Centre of Disease Control and Prevention reports around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning.

The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella between 2005 and 2015.

Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs"

prettybird · 11/04/2018 21:22

But it would only be the poor people who would only be able to afford be more likely to eat such food - and therefore more susceptible to falling ill or even dying , so who cares?Hmm

The underclass of dystopian sci-fi stories is turning into reality SadAngry

RedToothBrush · 11/04/2018 21:33

Keir Starmer @ keirstarmer (with in the last 5 mins)
Having won a meaningful vote on PM’s Article 50 deal, we’ll apply our longstanding 6 tests to her deal. If tests not met, we’ll vote against. Meanwhile we’re pressing amendments so if vote goes against the PM, Parliament decides what happens next. Pretty straightforward really.

It can't possibly pass the six tests. Cos they are impossible unless you remain in the single market and customs union.

I look forward to Corbyn explaining how the deal will past the test when Labour vote for the deal. Not that it matters a great deal, as its down to whether Conservatives vote for it or not (including the MP for Vauxhall).

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RedToothBrush · 11/04/2018 21:42

Jim Waterson @ jimwaterson
The White House: "Get me the UK defence secretary, we need to talk Syria."
UK government: "Sorry, he's still an MP and he's got a day in the constituency."
WH: "What's he doing?"
UK: "Learning about hedgehogs."
WH: "..."

Gavin Williamson MP @ gavinwilliamson
It was wonderful learning about the new partnership between The Natural Burial Company and The British Hedgehog Preservation Society at Wrottesley Park.
www.gavinwilliamson.org/news/earlier-month-gavin-met-british-hedgehog-preservation-society-wrottesley-park

The comments to this say it all. I think most of us will be in agreement that we'd all be feeling safer right now, if Williamson had followed his true calling into hedgehog care rather than becoming an MP.

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RedToothBrush · 11/04/2018 21:54

Robert Kimbell @ redhotsquirrel
BBC: Theresa May 'to act on Syria without MPs' vote' - sources.

Well it was nice knowing you all...

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BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2018 21:57

European press agencies - Interview with Barnier

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/interview/brexit-most-difficult-part-is-still-to-come-warns-barnier/

The UK will leave the EU on 30 March 2019.
The UK will not leave the Single Market and the Customs Union until 31 December 2020

At this point in time everything seems to suggest that this timeframe can be met.
It would make sense for things to be settled by October.

Along with the treaty on withdrawal, we want a clear statement on future relations, so that everyone has a clear idea.

From October 2018 to December 2020 there is not a lot of time to finalise an agreement and translate the legal framework for future relations into one or more treaties or international agreements.

lalalonglegs · 11/04/2018 22:11

Jesus, you would have thought TM would have learned a thing or two from her past mistakes about not consulting Parliament on major issues. You would have thought that she would have learned a thing or two about proposing military action without first getting an international mandate from another PM's mistakes.

HesterThrale · 11/04/2018 22:12

World’s most admired 2018.
The only country in the survey where Trump was more admired (narrowly) than Obama, was Russia:

yougov.co.uk/news/2018/04/11/worlds-most-admired-2018/

(2nd chart down)

Motheroffourdragons · 11/04/2018 22:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Sostenueto · 12/04/2018 05:23

Omg! Can't believe TM going to act on Syria without Parliament consent! Has nothing been learned?Shock
I know something has to be done but surely token bombing will not solve this tragic problem?Sad
Innocents will be killed yet again..

mathanxiety · 12/04/2018 05:26

Ah but look at the squirrel value of Syria - how could she resist?

lonelyplanetmum · 12/04/2018 06:48

The thing is Syria could be a boomerang disguised as a squirrel. [ ...attempts profound thread title reference]

Also I wonder if sufficient numbers of voters care enough about Syria for there to be a squirrel effect? It probably depends on press treatment, and the extent to which there's a focus on individual service men and women.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 12/04/2018 07:12

Poor sods in Syria, it seems the whole world wants to chuck their bombs in on it.

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2018 07:35

I don't doubt its a boomerang.

In no way is Syria about doing anything for people there. There is literally nothing the west can do which won't make the situation worse. Not with Russia and Iran deeply entrenched in the mess. It truly is WWIII waiting to happen. By accident. Put of incompetence of leaders.

Besides which war is good for business. (Sarah Kendzior made the observation that Trump cares nothing for the lives of servicemen, and "winning" to him could be financial even though the US lose). Uk economy could do with something. Plus nothing like a war to channel protesters. You can blame shortages on the war then too.

I am cynical.

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Peregrina · 12/04/2018 07:36

A total tragedy in Syria, and being tackled entirely the wrong way, which is absolutely no surprise with the dunces in Govt both here and the USA.

I appear to be going off at a tangent, but it's relevant. There was a good article about the Good Friday Agreement in yesterday's Guardian, where someone said that they had the courage to ask a different question - not 'what are you prepared to die for?' but 'what compromise can you live with?' I paraphrase a little, writing from memory. This is what is needed in Syria and the whole of the Middle East - not the dick swinging of Trump and then May trying to show that she is important enough to play with the big boys.

I despair. We might soon have much more to worry about than Brexit.

Cailleach1 · 12/04/2018 07:37

So, the solution to being being murdered is to murder yet more people. Is this the solution to the bombings in Yemen? The resultant famine and Cholera outbreak. All man made. Nobody outraged by those childrens' deaths? Condemnation of the perpetrators and their suppliers? Oh, that would be who and who?

The hypocrisy is quite something.

mathanxiety · 12/04/2018 07:47

It's not that anyone knows what the heck is going on in Syria, cares about Syria, or whether public support would be enough to give Syria squirrel value.

The squirrel value arises from Russia's involvement there. Our heroine, the second coming of Margaret-Thatcher-vs-Those-Nasty-Argentines is taking on That-Nasty-Putin-in-Syria.

I doubt there would be troops on the ground either. Any action by TM would involve the RAF, and missiles. Or maybe just some more sanctions.