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Brexit

Westminstenders: Throwing Boomerangs

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2018 18:42

British politics and media in a nutshell.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_effect_(psychology)#Political_beliefs

No EU progress, no discussion. Just this. Keep everyone in line by bouncing boomerangs.

Disaster capitalism looms, they just have to get us to the edge of the cliff before the centre reforms. That's it.

If the legal roads to stop Brexit are closed as David Allen Green says, then how do you force the political flood gates to open, especially with both the far left and the far right using micro-aggression against the public to keep the centre ground weak?

Answers on a ballot paper on 3rd May.

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DrivenToDespair · 18/04/2018 13:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2018 15:13

Faisal Islam @ faisalislam
I am now highly confused - the Government/ Home Office released a background statement last night asserting “In 2010, the decision was taken by the UK Border Agency” - the PM says made in 2009 by Labour.

No one knows what happens in the Home Office. Its a void. With no leader.

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RedToothBrush · 18/04/2018 15:19

Paul Waugh @ paulwaugh
^Imp clarification after #PMQs
from No10: destruction of landing cards was an "operational decision" by the UK Border Agency. Ie Not a decision by a Labour Home Secretary or minister.^

Beth Rigby @ bethrigby
^Have the clarification: in June 2009 business case approved by UKBA to dispose of paper records
Dec 2009 the work started
Second half 2010 the operational decision to destroy paper slips enacted. (enacting prog of work agreed in 2009). All of it UKBA decisions NOT ministerial^

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
Labour spokesman: "One thing is already clear: The change in the law in 2014 that meant members of the Windrush generation faced deportation and the loss of their rights was made in full view of the fact that the vital information had been destroyed." This is the key fact.

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EmilyAlice · 18/04/2018 17:42

Thumping defeat for government on Customs Union in the Lords 348 to 225. 😊

DGRossetti · 18/04/2018 18:18

Before the vote, former Tory minister Lord Forsyth warned that peers were "playing with fire" by what he suggested were efforts to "overturn the wishes" of the British public, who voted to leave the EU in 2016.

More rollback .... I see the BBC is now pointing out for even the most moronic Brexiteer the referendum vote is starting to whiff a bit.

Again, confused Brexiteers everywhere. Like a bee colony with no queen ...

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2018 19:32

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/18/whistleblowers-contradict-no-10-over-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards

Home Office claims that the destruction of Windrush-era landing cards in 2010 had no impact on the rights of those individuals to stay in the UK have been dramatically undermined by the evidence of two new whistleblowers.

Staff, in fact, routinely used landing card information as part of their decision-making process
and saw the Windrush landing cards as a useful resource,
according to information from two new Home Office whistleblowers.

Their accounts have been further supported by the emergence of Border Force guidance,
obtained under the Freedom of Information Act,
that appears to contradict the government’s justification of a decision to destroy an archive of Windrush-era arrival slips.

mathanxiety · 18/04/2018 20:05

citizenpath.com/how-to-read-a-green-card-2/
It's not as if the UK has no model it could follow from anywhere else.
Yes, I know there are illegal immigrants and that green cards can be forged. But the economy absorbs millions of people without papers. The point is all the cross referencing, indexing, etc.

prettybird · 18/04/2018 20:49

But a Green Card (or any biometric "Right to Remain" card) ignores the racism (and poor-ism) of the UK's "hostile environment" immigration policy and its lack of joined up thinking Angry.

Without supposedly a legal need for ID cards for UK citizens, just who is that is being required to acquire these biometric cards to "prove" that they are already legal? Black people? "Furrin" people? Either because they look furrin or they sound furrin? Hmm Poor people? ...because they are the ones who unlike nice, middle class, white me didn't travel as adults and therefore didn't need passports? Because they are poor and therefore couldn't afford passports? Angry

mathanxiety · 18/04/2018 21:14

Yes, the basic assumptions that are grounded in classism and racism would be seriously challenged if the question was to be dealt with in a professional way, with joined up thinking, forward planning, interdepartmental communication. This is why the upcoming FOM/3 million people to deal with problem will end up disastrously.

The ads for the border patrol jobs in NI (what border now?) illustrate another aspect of the same problem - complete lack of joined up thinking, broad assumptions that are so deeply entrenched that nobody questions them, complete lack of self awareness - how do others see us? And complete disregard for the law (the GFA in this case) what it says, what responsibilities the government has as a result of it. There seems to be no acknowledgement that words have meanings.

I can picture Guy Verhofstadt's jaw hitting his breakfast table, croissant half way to mouth, coffee cup in his other hand, as the Windrush saga hit his screen. Certainly the Irish government must look very prescient, having insisted on written guarantees on the border. I can see him making a note to self to be absolutely sure the UK completely understands negotiated items and what they will entail in terms of responsibilities and rights, and not to leave any detail to chance. The UK looks like a parallel universe run by amateurs who couldn't organise a dog fight.

mathanxiety · 18/04/2018 21:17

And it's possible to have both a hostile environment and a solid system of documenting who is in a country legally and who is not, the US being a prime example.

Mistigri · 18/04/2018 21:45

It feels a bit like a turning point has been reached, with the Windrush scandal and the CU vote in the Lords.

This thread might be wishful thinking but it is interesting:

mobile.twitter.com/jonworth/status/986674794623053835

Plonkysaurus · 18/04/2018 22:50

Interesting @Mistigri because it's what posters have been saying here for 12 months.

Things are happening in plural right now, as they always do. And these things, taken together, reveal a fundamentally corrupt government. I wonder when the tipping point will come? I wonder if we'll have the wherewithal to learn from this?

I hope the younger generations will clamour for change but this time, they'll be strengthened by having so many other voices on their side. Voices left for dead by austerity, people put on the social scrapheap because of the likes of IDS and Give, and of course, everyone even remotely connected to Windrush.

Makes me think of the Bowie song.
"And these children that you spit on as they try to change their world are immune to your consultations, they're quite aware of what they're going through"

Peregrina · 18/04/2018 23:29

It's no good for Tory peers to talk about the vote in the Lords frustrating the 'will of the people' because the Referendum didn't ask, "should we leave the customs union", and indeed quite a few Leavers were in favour of staying in.

Funnily enough, we haven't heard quite so much about "the will of the people" in recent days and Grease Smug, Fox, Davis and Johnson don't seem to have been as much in evidence.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2018 23:39

Catherine Bearder @ catherinemep
No really! There are rumours in the Parl in Stras that the UKIP group have been asking about their office arrangements and allowances during the transition period. What bit of Leave don’t they understand?

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HesterThrale · 19/04/2018 06:07

It seems that the Parliamentary debate on the petition “Parliament's vote on the Brexit deal must include an option to remain in the EU", has yet again been postponed, from 30 April to 11 June.
This seems to be because they are now debating the petition "Amnesty for anyone who was a minor that arrived In Britain between 1948 to 1971” on 30 April.

They seem equally urgent. Another indicator that Parliament doesn't have the time or resources to carry out everything it needs to do, Brexit-related and otherwise.
After last night's defeat in the Lords, which would require the Government to negotiate to keep us in the Customs Union, I altogether think that time is getting really short.

DGRossetti · 19/04/2018 06:46

I altogether think that time is getting really short.

And whose fault is that ?

HesterThrale · 19/04/2018 07:09

And whose fault is that?

Why, the Government's!
I sense that TM may gradually become the isolated voice saying 'we can do this' as her Cabinet increasingly realise it can't be done.
Maybe it's not a crime to want to achieve a really difficult goal, but it is a crime to carry on after you personally know it's actually impossible. And to take everyone else down with you while you battle on fruitlessly.

Peregrina · 19/04/2018 07:13

I can't help but think 'Events, dear boy, events'.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 19/04/2018 07:14

Boy are they struggling now.

Theworldisfullofgs · 19/04/2018 07:26

I wish she'd just resign and give it up as a bad job, but then who are we left with.

She was always doomed to fail as she just doesn't have the creative thinking to make something like this work.

Peregrina · 19/04/2018 07:28

Nor does she have the nous to know when she is out of her depth and turn to others for advice.

Theworldisfullofgs · 19/04/2018 07:34

As long as those others are not Nick Timothy.

She's low trust and internally referenced. So she generally thinks she's right.

DGRossetti · 19/04/2018 08:40

Anyone catch Humphreys/Gove on Today ?

Who made it to the end ?

DrivenToDespair · 19/04/2018 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SusanWalker · 19/04/2018 09:35

Had this email this morning:

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Declare the 2016 referendum vote null and void due to foreign interference”.

Government responded:

The Referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in our history. The Government is clear that the result should be respected. There has been no evidence of successful interference.

We treat the security and integrity of our democratic processes extremely seriously. There has been no evidence of successful interference, but we take any allegations of interference in UK democratic processes by a foreign government extremely seriously.

The Electoral Commission is the independent regulatory body responsible for ensuring that elections and referendums are run effectively and in accordance with the law, registering political parties, and regulating the spending of and donations and loans to political parties and other campaigners. The Commission is independent of Government and accountable to Parliament via the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission. The Electoral Commission has confirmed that the 2016 referendum was a well run poll.

Legislation is in place to ensure that donations can only be accepted from a “permissible donor”, which includes individuals on the electoral roll, companies registered in the UK and carrying on business here, and a number of other UK-registered bodies.

The UK is also actively engaging with international partners, industry and civil society to tackle the threat of disinformation and propaganda where this is relevant to any potential foreign interference in elections.The Government’s recently published Safety Strategy sets out how we will work collaboratively with industry to address these issues online. This also forms part of the work under the Digital Charter, which aims to ensure that the UK is the safest place in the world to be online.

Cabinet Office