Westminstenders: From Russia with Love

[RedToothBrush]

Things just got scary.

The colony of US puppet state or a vassel state of the EU?

Why not just let market forces take their course and let Russia buy the UK?

How did we get to stories of spies and mafia who buy politicians?

Just who are our enemies and allies?

Won't someone think of the effect on house prices in Salisbury?

Try not to don your foil hat, brace yourself and resist shouting 'money laundering too loud'.

More turbulence ahead.

Brexit still seems like such a cracking idea doesn't it?

True mathanxiety I agree.

There's even a history of Russians being killed on British soil

www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.vhyjB1V5M#.fev5oLkdD

There has been concern pre-dating Skripal at unexplained deaths not being investigated thoroughly.

Part 1: www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/poison-in-the-system?utm_term=.xh2mzYeZl#.hkxYMw7eq

Part 2: www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.xeeJLZRXB#.epOo6P075

Part 3: www.buzzfeed.com/janebradley/scientist-who-helped-connect-litvinenkos-murder-to-the?utm_term=.jpAZVQpRG#.qxZR1nBXr

Part 4: www.buzzfeed.com/tomwarren/secrets-of-the-spy-in-the-bag?utm_term=.no27z9wRd#.kaXYy83QD

Part 5: www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopold/putins-media-czar-was-murdered-just-before-meeting-feds?utm_term=.clD7WdGMO#.bnyvBKMw3

Part 6: www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopold/police-file-exposes-holes-in-the-investigation-into-us?utm_term=.qmAXY9wOv#.oy9n1PNJ5

Yes to all of your post bigchoc

Mathanxiety: If Corbyn is in fact a traitor, or Milne, then charge them

How would that work? A private prosecution? I'm not sure that the CPS could accept a direction from the PM to prosecute the Leader of the Opposition just on her say-so.

Btw, I have just finished this fascinating book, which I think would appeal to the politically and socially engaged readers of these threads: thesecretbarrister.com/author/asecretbarrister/ (no connection, I preordered it from WH Smith and they sent it a week early)

Of course we didn't do it, I'm just curious as to why skripal chose salisbury.

If this is leaked to the Russians, they can trace back to any British agents in Russia
This is a common way agents get exposed: politicians use the information they provide ad it gets traced back
Bang - agents arrested, tortured (quite routine in Russia), Russia gains info about all that agent has sent to the UK, also about any other agents / contacts in their chain.

If the info comes via GCHQ & tech means, it is easier for Russia to block future leakage, if they know the precise info

What information could there possibly be in a briefing on the attempted murder of a former Russian double agent by an agent of the Russian government that would compromise any British agents in Russia?

None of what you have posted there has any relevance to the circumstances.

There are so many despairing posts here and on Trump threads about how all Trump needs to distract everyone is a war, so he can push his domestic and foreign policy agendas through under the radar, and distract from his legal/constitutional problems. And here is the same thing happening in the UK right under everyone's nose - foreign distraction, conflict - and nobody can see it.

Porton Down and Winterbourne Gunner are preeminent military-scientific installations. Both are the only installations of their kind in Britain. If Russia wanted information on Britain's defences against chemical or nuclear warfare, then Salisbury is where they would send an agent.

Here we go Andrew Marr.........

Oh god Boris is on,

I love SB's twitter contributions so will definitely check out the book.

Do you think jobs lost before are fair collateral?

NE Labour MEPs
@Labour4NE
Brilliant to see Labour leader @jeremycorbyn support our #Brexit red line: not a single job lost after we leave the EU! #JobsFirstBrexit

Do NOT get taken in by the Russian troll farm

LUDICROUS to think that the UK would use a dangerous nerve agent on its own territory

What motive ?
A temporary few % in the polls, which will disappear the moment Boris opens his mouth, or another minister gropes someone, or ....

Tory wingnuts might do anything, but not all the civil servants and scientists who would have to conspire with them

Putin is probably untouchable re murders
BUT
May or any Cabinet minister are not, if they murder someone in the UK for political purposes
in a way that risks mass civilian casualties

They would go to jail and the Tory Party would be destroyed permanently

They would easily get found out
Unlike Putin, they have no base in the intelligence services, no group of close friends eafer to bump off their enemiers
Just plenty of civil servants who despise them & Brexit and would leak at any chance

a conspiracy to use nerve agents could not even start
May has contact only via civil servant mandarins, very cautious people who don't trust politicians

The Cabinet Secretary and almost all top civil servants are generally agreed to be Remainers
who would never risk jail themselves for the Tory Party, or for a Brexit cause they hate & think bad for the country

Arborea Sun 18-Mar-18 08:57:42
Mathanxiety: "If Corbyn is in fact a traitor, or Milne, then charge them"

How would that work? A private prosecution? I'm not sure that the CPS could accept a direction from the PM to prosecute the Leader of the Opposition just on her say-so

Quite.
The point is that they are not traitors.

But it suits the PM to heavily hint that they are not to be trusted with information that is shared with foreign governments. That they do not have the best interests of the country at heart. That they might share information with their friends at the Russian Embassy.

A dirty tactic unworthy of a member of Parliament.

But what Trump is trying to distract everyone from is the Russians...

sos - why not Salisbury? contrary to earlier post it is not in walking distance of porton, Salisbury and winchester are probably the two largest cities in the middle south of England where there aren't strong regional accents - and whilst winchester is pleasant Salisbury has the advantage of not being easily accessible by road yet having a large enough hinterland to snuggle in quietly. If I was doing a reggie perrin Salisbury would be high on the list.

Briefing on why the intelligence services believe Russia is responsible for this attack and others
would of course include background information about Russian capabilities, intentions, previous murders etc

It won't just be comparing 2 sets of chemical equations in a Powerpoint
That's the bit they could show Corbyn

It's about all the secret intelligence info that they won't want to share with him.
It's the problem with having a Leader of the Opposition who is so dodgy, with dodgy friends.

Seamus Milne excuses Stalin & whitewashes him over the millions he exterminated

• Milne has written often enough, doing this, so it's not just a rumour Milne is one of Corbyn's key advisers Others have similar views

If someone who excused Hitler & the Holocaust* was a close associate of May, then I would say she is not to be trusted with intelligence about Nazi attacks in the UK*

As ever, very grateful to all contributors. BigChoc, your posts make sense to me.

I was also a little hmmm about Skripal living in Salisbury but I guess there will be a number of influencing factors? I expect we’ll never find out the entire truth.

First time I’ve been at math, I’m a huge fan but can’t get my head around those musings.

Waiting with dread for Boris to come on. He's such a...........

Twat? Cunt? Wankspanner? (I'd opt for all the above)

It's not a bit ludicrous. Skripal was no use to anyone any more except as someone whose death would be a distraction. He was unprotected, isolated, and lived down the road from the UK's only chemical weapons research facility. Or alternatively, he was a double double agent and was unmasked. Expelling him would have embarrassed the government.

Nobody would have to do any conspiring. The entire direction of Brexit was concocted by Fiona Hill, Nick Timothy and Theresa May, after all. These three ran the Home Office with no regard to the fact that the government is a team, and no respect was given to civil servants or other ministers. The Home Office has for many years run deportation centres that put into action all sorts of values that are counter to those that are held to be quintessentially British, with little or no scrutiny or public outrage. An incredibly dark and dirty war was waged in Northern Ireland for almost 30 years by Britain, with little or no examination of the whys and wherefores. It featured internment without trial, search of homes and businesses without warrants, collusion with terrorists in murder and other crimes, and attempts to whitewash events like Bloody Sunday. (As noted, the politician who asked questions and suggested a different approach is still being vilified for that).

How come when it comes to Russia, everyone is so inclined to believe every word that issues forth from the mouth of Theresa May?

On the basis of new evidence not shared with Jeremy Corbyn......... Well there's the elephant in the room then.

It should be pretty obvious that there is insufficient evidence against Corbyn's advisers

and wrt Corbyn:
there is no criminal offence of having dodgy friends with whom he might in future discuss secret intelligence.

However, as with Child Protection, we don't require a criminal conviction before we exclude people from certain work areas.

imo, issues of national security are at least as important as child protection
and the office of PM or Cabinet Minister or Privy Council member is even more important than being a teacher or child social worker.

It's about all the secret intelligence info that they won't want to share with him.

What secret intelligence?
What intelligence on Russian agents involved in the attempted murder of a Russian ex spy would compromise British agents in Russia?

math - re briefing - if there was an agent in place who confirmed a putin order or signint to the same effect then you can't tell anyone or even hint at it - let alone trump's US or the current cabinet - you just state the level of confidence.

Dignity under fire is IMO a good description of Corbyn and let's not forget that he was right over Iraq and Libia.

contrary to earlier post it is not in walking distance of porton

Porton Down is indeed within easy walking distance. Or you could get in your car and drive ten minutes.
www.rome2rio.com/s/Porton-Down/Salisbury-Station

Salisbury to Winterbourne Gunner is about 4 miles. To Porton Down is about 6 miles.

The point about proximity in any case is that there are most likely people who work in both places who live in Salisbury - if Skripal was still spying then Salisbury would have been a great place to live.

If the near miss was carried out by British agents, it would be easier to cause a near fatality close by than to have to transport a nerve agent a long way.

Maybe this is being framed the wrong way - maybe the Skripals were never meant to be killed (scruples about murder...) Just to provide a distraction and eventually to recover.