Westminstenders: From Russia with Love

[RedToothBrush]

Things just got scary.

The colony of US puppet state or a vassel state of the EU?

Why not just let market forces take their course and let Russia buy the UK?

How did we get to stories of spies and mafia who buy politicians?

Just who are our enemies and allies?

Won't someone think of the effect on house prices in Salisbury?

Try not to don your foil hat, brace yourself and resist shouting 'money laundering too loud'.

More turbulence ahead.

Brexit still seems like such a cracking idea doesn't it?

Hi cat waves. Yes am keeping eye on that thread which is a good one. I honestly think we have to be very careful now. May wants Russia out of Britain anyway for a multitude of reasons including security but we must not be seen to jump the gun. Very tense time me thinks.

Am I the only one that wants 100% verification (sigh

How can you ever get 100% verification? Even in science, nothing is ever proved - the work of science is to produce evidence that falsified a hypothesis. Something is only "proven" if despite all efforts of scientists over a long period of time, nothing is found that contradicts the hypothesis. Even hard science contains imprécisions and estimates and things that are not fully understood.

In a court of law, proven beyond reasonable doubt is the theory; in practice miscarriages of justice are rather common.

And in international relations, where one or both sides may be acting in bad faith, your chances of proof are even slimmer.

FWIW I see no reason to think the UK govt is wrong here. Even a stopped clock is right once a day.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/the-novichok-story-is-indeed-another-iraqi-wmd-scam/

I was going to give Corbyn the benefit of the doubt (again). Watching SM I've changed my mind.

More criminal than anything to do with physical poison, is what they are trying to do to our constitution, press, the labour party and country.
And comparing it to what's happened elsewhere, and the historical and economic reasons for it from cat and pain's posts, it's so obvious.
Perfect storm of corruption, AI and our complacence about the strength of liberal EU democracies.

May and Corbyn are doing a performance for those in the cheap seats.

But if they weren't fibbing:
RT should be out. Taxes should be collected. Brexit should be stopped.

Unless Corbyn is going to state that (and legalise women) he's what I always thought he was.

Be a funny old state of play if we are unable to stop brexit, as we are democratically and legally entitled to, because of putin.

At least this has made it nice and clear.

I think the austerity programme of the Conservatives is a major factor in the poisoning of political life generally and the centreground in particular.

Keeping a large swathe of the population too poor to engage in public life and political life, and too worried about the basic reproduction of life to think about anything else (or too worried that they are about to become that poor) is a fantastic way of disengaging people.

It also puts people off politics by making 'politics' something that hurts you.

The lack of a credible alternative was poisonous - hence some people, apparently, voting for Brexit (of all fucking things) as a protest.

Add to that an opposition - the only powerful voice opposing austerity - led by someone who expresses a suspicion of democratic process and, yes, the centre becomes poisoned ground.

The centre needs to be detoxified. Part of that is a very strong awareness/message that austerity was/is poisonous for democracy.

Which is something I know quite a lot of posters have been banging away at for ages.

Personally, I want a Labour Party without Corbyn at its head. But that can only happen if he is not so strongly associated with being the only voice arguing strongly against austerity.

And, yes, I know a lot of Labour 'moderates' are strongly against austerity - but that message needs to get out there.

The 350million for the NHS.
We have started receiving leaflets through the door advertising for private health clinics in the wider area recently. Never had this before. Anyone else?

Think the link I put on summarizes what I'm getting at.

YY to your post cat^

woman It really is a funny old state of play, isn't it? But I think the resistance starts here.

I think we need a centre party with the moderate Tories, moderate Labour and LibDems. I see things beginning to happen at the local level, people and parties beginning to put out tentative feelers but nothing nationally. I think it's the only way we will save ourselves.

red
I said exactly the same to ds1 this morning.
I need a centrist party...left or right. I don't care.
woman
Ive been thinking the same. Maybe Putin has over played his hand?

Portion Down in recent publications admits it has never seen any Russian “novichoks”. The UK government has absolutely no “fingerprint” information such as impurities that can safely attribute this substance to Russia.
2) Until now, neither Porton Down nor the world’s experts at the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) were convinced “Novichoks” even exist.
3) The UK is refusing to provide a sample to the OPCW.
4) “Novichoks” were specifically designed to be able to be manufactured from common ingredients on any scientific bench. The Americans dismantled and studied the facility that allegedly developed them. It is completely untrue only the Russians could make them, if anybody can.
5) The “Novichok” programme was in Uzbekistan not in Russia. Its legacy was inherited by the Americans during their alliance with Karimov, not by the Russians.

Was lamenting the same on the Trump thread yesterday - America have a blue wave that has a strong chance of ridding themselves of the GOP in November (if Trump doesn't slide faster into his autocratic ways and put off elections because of fears of voting integrity, or any other measures that prevent fair and free elections) but what we need here is a multicoloured wave of moderates coming together.

Rainbows are more plausible than unicorns

We're not alone in calling it a coup

Prof Tanja Bueltmann
‏*@cliodiaspora*
I really do not know how much more evidence you need, dear UK, to finally understand what Brexit has always been about since @theresa_may let hard Brexiters run away with it: a coup. One that has increasingly fascist undertones.

Alice - The 350million for the NHS: my local paper had a full page ad,

"Speed Things Up By Paying For Your Own Treatment At XYZ Hospital"

Personally, I want a Labour Party without Corbyn at its head. But that can only happen if he is not so strongly associated with being the only voice arguing strongly against austerity.

The problem is, Corbyn speaks the anti-austerity game, but he did nothing about it in the 2017 manifesto. He's the product of stories, not facts - something that's endemic in politics now.

Reversing the class war that tories have weaponised is existential necessity atm. But whether it can be done with an accountable democratic party remains to be seen. Labour is not accountable or democratic in my eyes now, but none of them are.

The fact that we are having to refer to party leaders and not membership and electoral accountability, constitutional norms and procedures, speaks volumes for the parlous state of our political culture atm.

Centre ground is a luxury item. Undefended it withers. Putin knows that too.

10,000 more deaths in January than in previous years. Not due to viruses or flu and increase is only pacific to the UK. Is austerity really kicking in?

Are your sure the deaths are not due to flu or viruses? There does seem to have been a particularly nasty bug going round this winter, which has laid even healthy people very low.

Austerity has had a measurable impact on life expectancy in poor areas - will have a small impact on premature deaths.

I'd hazard a guess that surplus mortality this winter is more to do with the circulating strain of flu though.

Excellent posts today everyone (I love this thread) and by coincidence, DH and I were talking just last night about what the hell happened to the centre ground in politics?

@RedToothBrush agree with a lot of yr assessment - the problem is psychopaths have got control of both left and right now and are causing instability in the political system - it started with Thatcher and Reagan and was carried on by Blair/Clinton etc. Austerity is a tactic to drain the public assets. Brown sold off the gold that we should have been using in these hard times. Labour/Democrats throw a few more crumbs to the poor and needy (most of whom are women) but really they are still crumbs. What's needed is some new, brave, moral leadership.

Here's my summation from the poisoning of Skripal thread for more info -

Everytime I read a thread like this what comes to mind is you gotta understand psychopaths. They don't care about their country, despite what they say. Who stands to make money/power from this awful incident:

• Putin - manipulating Russian public opinion in forthcoming elections and plus he wants instability in UK - he and his cronies have a huge vested financial interests in the UK. He's funding Brexit as he wants to break up the EU - his only real opposition to his expansionist ideals.

• Many conservatives and ultra right (Farage/Johnson/Gove etc) are complicit because they accept huge donations from them- they won't bite the hand that feeds them - more of a nip - hence the rather toothless response. They want Brexit to protect their power and financial interests.

• Trump won't speak out as he's in Putin's pocket due to his business interests in Russia.

• The EU are the only real security against Russian expansionism

• Corbin is walking a tightrope - he's torn between having to support his working class base who voted for Brexit, being Brexit leaning himself and keeping the young vote who don't want Brexit. I don't like the guy as I believe he's no friend of women, but I acknowledge he's in a tricky position. But he totally screwed up his response - why would he not want to criticise Russia - what's he stand to gain other than standing by his principals? Makes him look naive and stupid I think

tl;dr I don't know why people aren't looking at who's funding Brexit - the psychopaths are manipulating public opinion via all media - don't believe a word of it - read between the lines - money and power - that's their motivations. Their real thinking is "screw the bewildered herd" who think they care about them and the country.

Keep it up MN!! The Dalai Lama said western women would prove to be the solution to the taint affecting much of the world - we have the answers - courage….

What's needed is some new, brave, moral leadership.

Amen to that, but where is it going to come from?

Never fear
Ds1 and his friends are forming their own party...
"The people who do what they say they are going to do" party

😁

Figures have looked at all medical reasons why figures so high peregrina and also across other countries. No bugs or illnesses accounting for the rise which is only in GB.