Westministenders: Groundhog Day

[RedToothBrush]

Groundhog day is 2nd Feb.

Its also today. And yesterday. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before. And the day before.

We have all turned into Bill Murray.

That's Brexit in the UK.

The only progress seems to be linguistic gymnastics not policy.

No action has been implemented, we are still on words going nowhere.

Tick tock, tick tock.

‘Strong and stable’ didn’t fool anyone, did it?

Have you seen the Bexit Arms ?

UK wants transition to last indefinitely - in draft guidelines

Colour me completely unsurprised.

DH and I are to wait to get French citizenship until we can do it by the easy route (déclaration versus nationalisation), which will be 2025 for him and 2029 for me. He has every chance of being a citizen before full Brexit, and there is a good chance that I will be too. 10 years for complex trade agreements sounds about right (of course by then one would hope that common sense will have prevailed).

Realistically if you do want to brexit and you want to do it in the best possible way which is smooth, you'd go for the longest possible transition.

The Brexit Arms is probably 4 people. The electorate were not fooled by string and stable. And there has been no further evidence of strong and stable behaviour since. Unfortunately the opposition keeps forgetting to oppose....

Interesting episode of Brexit - a guide for the perplexed on R4 today. About Gibraltar. But also about the EU border in the Caribbean between Anguilla and St Martin. St Martin also has an EU land border, French and Dutch.

Don't know why I did that smiley in my pocket. I don't understand the indefinite transition. If that was what we wanted why trigger Article 50 then. When the two years expires we are out unless there is unanimity between all the other member states surely?

If that was what we wanted why trigger Article 50 then.

Because the Tories have been making it up as they go along? In reality, I suspect the result of the election went and put the kibosh on May's plans. The hoped for wipe out of Labour would have meant full steam ahead for hard Brexit. The 'will of the people' said, 'wait a minute'.

Realistically if you do want to brexit and you want to do it in the best possible way which is smooth, you'd go for the longest possible transition.

The problem with that is you can never hit a moving target ... the EU will continue to evolve, and the UK will just have to tag along. I have to say, from an EU point of view, that's sounds like perfection. The UK just quietly being a good European with no danger of actually messing anything up as has happened previously.

Even now, a mere 20 months after the referendum, the "EU" people voted to leave has changed and is changing Which may be an argument for a second referendum in the same way the UK the Scottish voted not to leave in 2014 has now moved on.

Any minister who signs a threatening letter to the PM would surely be sacked
even when the PM is T May

So I would be astonished if any ministers have signed;
It's like keeping Legatum-embroidered underpants, but not wearing the T-shirt in public.

Nationalist Leavers will not be swayed by facts that their decision was wrong - nationalism and its aims are based on emotions, not logic;
in the event of an economic crash they will blame scapegoats instead, as Germans did after their WW1 defeat and economic crash

The "Backfire Effect" explains why

many people who are emotionally convinced of something
will become even more convinced if they are given factual evidence that disproves what they believe

http://www.skepdic.com/backfireeffect.htmll^

It's surprising how few of the Tory core vote give a damn about student fees or debt

All their loyalty goes to those who gave them property windfalls and who continue to protect their house prices.
I suspect that also dampens the anger of some property owners on the left & centre

So, the Tories will protect house prices at all costs, which means keeping demand above supply,
not enabling cheaper homes to be built, to rent or buy, but encouraging the young to take on yet more debt.

When the grad tax was first brought in, I assumed there would be a braindrain of any grads who took out loans, but are able to work abroad.
However, it turned out that this is an emotional step too far for many - even moving to another area of the UK brings anguish.
That's probably another example of an extreme Aspie like me not understanding how NTs feel or act.
You're a strange species !
At least I understand scientists better - many, like me, moved to Germany after the ref and more are enquiring about jobs atm.

For those like motherof4's DC, the EU would be an nearby escape - afaik, student debt is not pursued abroad - cannot be not pursued in most countries.
Or more distant, English-speaking countries if they don't have the languages.

Add to that the tenant friendly rental laws, sensible rents & house prices, low cost subsidised childcare, more protected public services …

amp.ibtimes.co.uk/brexit-mess-boris-johnson-tells-german-officials-eu-sources-1662739

When the grad tax was first brought in, I assumed there would be a braindrain of any grads who took out loans, but are able to work abroad. However, it turned out that this is an emotional step too far for many - even moving to another area of the UK brings anguish.

Interesting that the English tendency to view other languages as fripperies plays into that.

(and now in French ...)

Interesting that the English tendency to view other languages as fripperies plays into that.

Mind you, having relocated 100 miles from London to Brum I have to admit that a full-on Black country accent leaves me smiling and nodding in "make it look like you understand" mode.

Labour to sweep London in local elections with best result for any party since 1968, new poll suggests

Survey indicates just 28 per cent of Londoners plan to vote Tory

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-london-local-elections-2018-win-best-results-party-poll-a8221081.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter

new poll suggests

Not really sure that means anything at all. Have we all forgotten 2017 ?

Are my ears deceiving me or did Jeremy Corbyn actually ask a question about brexit today?????
🤔

Are my ears deceiving me or did Jeremy Corbyn actually ask a question about brexit today?????

What happened to his "idea" of asking a question at PMQs from a member of the public ?

If JC actually took a firm brexit position TM would shit herself. The trouble with the labour wait and see approach is it allows the tories to constantly deflect. If all labour members could say this is what we want, what about you? the tory mumblings of deep and special partnership would look even more ridiculous than they already are.

If JC actually took a firm brexit position TM would shit herself.

Thing is JC is himself conflicted ... we all know he's basically anti-EU. Not only that. He's anti-EU for the same reasons JRM, BoJo et al are. He believes it's an organisation designed to stop the world looking JC shaped.

Now a politician with integrity would either explain this and step down, or explain this but carry the will of the membership forward. After all a lot of MPs are faced with having to live with things they have a personal issue with.

I really, really, really don't give a rats arse what JC thinks about the EU. I do care that any precious vote I cast cannot - and will not - be traduced into support for Brexit.

Given that I firmly believe one of the best things for UK workers rights has been the UK membership of the EU, I'm puzzled that JC appears to be placing his personal shibboleth above the welfare of his constituency.

Apparently Brexit will bring us rural (well, farmers) broadband.

Following on from @IheartNiles point about nobody being fooled, if you want some cheer, read the comments ... Gove ain't fooling anybody.

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/21/brexit_will_mean_better_broadband_and_4g_coverage_for_farmers_says_michael_gove/

UK Environment Secretary Michael Gove has promised to use the cash we no longer have to give to the EU to subsidise rural connectivity.

In a speech heavy on rhetoric but light on detail, Gove told delegates at the National Farmer's Union the government would spend billions of pounds improving rural broadband and 4G mobile phone coverage after Brexit.

He said: "Universal broadband and 4G coverage for all – paid for by the money we no longer have to give to the EU – that is what we mean by taking back control."

Gove claimed it was "ridiculous that you can get better mobile phone coverage in Kenya than in parts of Kent.

"It is unjustifiable that in the country that first guaranteed universal mail provision, invented the telephone and television and pioneered the World Wide Web that broadband provision is so patchy and poor in so many areas."

He also blamed the EU's rules on state aid having "prevented us from investing in broadband in a way that is best for the UK.

"Outside the EU, just one-fifth of our annual net contribution to the EU could transform our national infrastructure."

According to Ofcom, one million folk cannot get speeds of 10Mbps, with the government planning to introduce a universal service obligation by 2020.

Gove also pooh-poohed the argument against subsidising those who choose to live in rural areas, where broadband provision and mobile phone coverage may cost more than urban areas.

"[W]here do the urban dwellers get their food from, who keeps the countryside beautiful for them, who protects the landscape, keeps our nation’s green lungs breathing, who maintains the health, beauty and balance of nature for future generations?

"The people in rural areas who are currently being deprived an important service so many take for granted and need it now.

The readers of The Register aren't the farmers who may or may not have voted for Brexit: they're techies or telecoms professionals who tend to see the bigger picture.

About 20 years ago I was involved with the "Northern Infrastructure Project", improving telecoms connectivity In the Highlands and Islands of Scotland for both the mobile operators and the embryonic University of the Highlands and Islands. Guess what - it was partly funded by the EU So much for the EU prohibiting such investment.

Totally agree about Corbyn, DC. He needs to go, or remember who he's actually representing.

I thought the money was going on the NHS? What money there will be left anyway.

Gosh, all those EU savings are going to be spread pretty thin.

Hope Gove hasn’t forgotten that £1billion of the money sent to the EU every year goes on foreign aid and forms part of the spending commitment that the UK has signed up to with the UN.