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Brexit

Westministers: Happy New Year?

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/01/2018 11:37

And so we enter a New Year full of hope that things might just be about to recover from our national nervous breakdown... or perhaps not.

As we have Damien Green ejected from his role as Deputy PM over allegations of inappropriate conduct towards woman and use of porn at the end of last year, 2018 sees a bright new progressive dawn with the appointment to the role of universities regulator of Toby Young. A man who has deleted 20,000 tweets including many which are inappropriate and offensive to women, is a fan of eugenics and hates the working class and disabled.

Meanwhile the NHS is facing a crisis which is totally unexpected to the government and couldn't possibly have been planned for by a man who has over seen it for over five years. Which naturally bodes really well for Brexit planning.

We are apparently planning to join the TPP. Never mind geopolitics we can move the UK to the Pacific region.

We still are not ready for trade talks because the Cabinet can not agree on anything. Not that it sounds like they have actually discussed anything along these lines yet.

Rumours are that the Cabinet - including arch leavers such as Gove - are leaning towards supporting May and a softer option, despite the disgust of Johnson, who once again is the subject of malicious chatter about his sacking in a forthcoming Cabinet Reshuffle.

There is talk of further Tory Party war with the revelation that membership of the party has dropped to a core of just 70,000 hardline authoritarian men, most of whom are over 60. Tory HQ now wants to (perhaps with some good reason to prevent the loons) rewrite the constitution and limit the power of local associations to select candidates. The Tory party is now lining up to be a power struggle between internal authoritarians, who don't like democracy voices or structure.

Meanwhile the Labour Party membership now apparently overwhelmingly looks upon staying in the customs union and single market favourably and is in favour of a second referendum. In opposition to the leadership who are utterly committed to Hard Brexit. Much to the annoyance of Lord Adonis who is pitching a fit about government corruption and incompetence and being accused of being elite because he going skiing. Unlike of prominent Leavers who are in touch with the working class.

And finally Nigel Farage has got a meeting with Barnier. Farage, unlike Clegg, Clarke and Adonis, will not be accused by the Right Wing Press of undermining the government's negotiating position because...

It appears that we are in for another year of Brexit nonsense then.

We've not even heard mention of Gibraltar yet.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
52
BiglyBadgers · 09/01/2018 18:27

On which day are they allowed to speak?

Which ever day they are on the rota for making tea. In which case they may enquire if sir would like one lump of sugar or two.

QuentinSummers · 09/01/2018 18:47

I have a little conspiracy theory growing about JG leaving. I think there is a faction of the Conservative party lining Ruth Davidson up as leader. And JG is going to be part of that campaign. Possibly Nicholas Soames too - he seems is very vocal about the reshuffle and there were rumours Ruth Davidson was going to take his seat when he retires.
Go one step further - maybe May is lining up untainted successors for when she has to fall in her sword.
Interesting times. I would rather have Davidson/Greening than any of the other potential Tory leaders.

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 18:55

QuentinSummers Well at least there's Lesbian Tory fightback, which is not something I thought I'd be saying 25 years ago.

HesterThrale · 09/01/2018 19:35

So there's a few more women up there. We're not out of the woods yet though, with Parliamentary misogyny and inequality. In fact, still fairly near the centre of the forest. MPs still have to be told to behave in a respectful way to colleagues. (A way that most of the rest of humanity have to behave at work.) Or risk the sack. Something to do with the feeling of automatic privilege that some of them have. I mean - Toby Young. How could they defend that? And what happened to Charlie Elphicke?

New ministerial code cracks down on bullying and harassment.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42621591

www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cxw7v65wgq7t/charlie-elphicke

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 19:38

The BBC is becoming really dysfunctional.
I really like these two journalists. Guess which one has been taken off air for tweeting about equal pay.

Westministers: Happy New Year?
woman11017 · 09/01/2018 19:51

Megan Markle has had to close their twitter accounts. I imagine it won't be long before the rest are closed.

Frankiestein401 · 09/01/2018 20:05

Re labour staying quiet - I'd like to see an opposition taking lumps out of the non-government, but it's not clear there could be one that would do more damage to the tories than letting them continue to demonstrate Incompetence.

Its unfortunately too soon for any opposition to align with anti brexit because that gives the tories and the right wing media a target to attack and divert attention from the shambles. Possibly the best strategy at the moment is to keep drawing attention to the cock-ups that can't be blamed on the eu?

The sooner some sort of view on the exit deal is available the sooner it will be possible to justify opposing it on the basis of it being so much worse than the status quo - hopefully that's when the tide turns.

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 20:23

Labour are probably waiting for the summer food shortages, god forbid, Frankiestein401 I just hope SM is still allowed in 6 months.

Doubletrouble99 · 09/01/2018 20:48

The 5 opposition party leaders had a meeting today to discuss staying in the single market, only JC didn't turn up as he thought it was a joke!!!

Doubletrouble99 · 09/01/2018 20:50

The 5 opposition party leaders had a meeting today to discuss staying in the single market, only JC didn't turn up as he thought it was a joke!!!

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 21:23

Wondering if this T. Young and BBC women's pay stuff, is a little bit of theatre for the main event this week when they abolish/reduce the Equalities Act with the coming vote on ECHR.

Although that does imply that they've planned it, so, it's probably a silly idea.

Tanith · 09/01/2018 21:37

“Major also seemed reasonable and honest - qualities almost totally lacking in May's Govt.“

They weren’t exactly in abundance in Major’s time, either. It was the taint of Sleaze that helped lose them the 1997 election.

Cailleach1 · 09/01/2018 21:48

The EU aren't 'adopting' new measures to apply to the UK as a third country. The rules about having to be located in the EU are already in place. The UK were around the table and were part of the decision making process since the 70's and benefitted from the rules favouring member states.

The UK is not being treated differently. 3rd country rules will not apply until the UK becomes a third country on Brexit.

So, wait until the rest of the chickens come home to roost. Airports, manufacturing. The EU are surprised the UK is surprised about the consequences of Brexit. Well, knock me down with a feather 'cos I'm surprised too.

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 23:35

Interesting thread for a number of reasons. (Inc observation that GRA is a right wing policy)

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Reshuffle question: What did the Tory right get out of this reshuffle? What was their biggest "win", their biggest promotion etc. Did the "brexit right" get enough out of Theresa May this week?

Spoilers: some say not

Thomas Moss @ tpmoss2
Either McVey in Cabinet, or Fernandes in DExEU.

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
McVey not really on the affirmed right of the party despite brexit support, Suella a junior post

Pawel Swidlicki @ pswidlicki
You'd probably have to say Greening's departure from Education. On Brexit, not sure what Suella is going to add to DExEU that Baker didn't (beyond demographics) and her departure further weakens ERG as parliamentary force

Anushka Asthana @ GuardianAnushka
Although Justine Greening on backbenches speaking out (and voting) on behalf of constituents who voted heavily for remain is arguably worse for Brexiters than her as cabinet minister not really addressing issue.

Pawel Swidlicki @ pswidlicki
True, I meant more a win for the Tory right from perspective of her not indulging their grammar schools fetish and due to her quite bold policy proposals on gender realignment

Stephen Brown @ stephengbrown
Could it be the Brexit enthusiasts are sent to DexEU while the real work done by Olly Robbins and the Cabinet Office?

Ukpolitics po polsku @ ukpoliticspl
And Suella Fernandes won't have as much time as before to run European Research Group operations. Is Michael Tomlinson going to take over or Jacob Rees-Mogg?

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
The Treasury is now completely remain

The Cabinet Office - the engine room of government - is also completely remain

And David Lidington may be more active on Europe than Damian Green

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 00:07

Barnier's speech in Brussels, 9 Jan

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-releaseSPEECH-18-855_en.htm

He said he asked 3 key questions from the beginning of the negotiations
< I'm not sure if he means he only asked himself, because DD hasn't a clue as to the answers >

I – Does the UK want an orderly withdrawal or a disorderly withdrawal and is it ready to assume the immediate consequences of its decision to leave the European Union?

the risk of a disorderly withdrawal has receded, even though we must remain prepared for all options
< note: imo, by "disorderly" he does not mean WTO terms, but a Brexit without even WTO or Open Skies / flights organised
e.g. if DD tries to bluff too long, time runs out and the UK Brexits, with reversion to the default no-deal >

II – What kind of future relationship does the UK want with the European Union?

We don't yet have the answer to this question. Blush

However, we can proceed by deduction, based on the Union's legal system and the UK's red lines. By officially drawing these red lines, the UK is itself closing the doors, one by one.
The British government wants to end the free movement of persons, which is indivisible from the other three freedoms. It has therefore indicated its intention of leaving the Single Market.
The British government wants to recover its independence to negotiate international agreements. It has therefore confirmed its intention of leaving the Customs Union.
The UK no longer wishes to recognise the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union, which guarantees the application of our common rules.

It follows that the only model possible is a free trade agreement.
< which can certainly be "tuned" to UK needs, but won't be "cherrypicked" by the UK >

III Does the United Kingdom want to stay close to the European regulatory model or to distance itself from it?

This is an important decision because the European regulatory framework is underpinned by key societal choices that are dear to us:
our social market economy, health protection, food security, and fair and effective financial regulation.

There will be no ambitious partnership without common ground on fair competition, State aid, guarantees against tax dumping and social and environmental standards.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 00:17

Theresa May can rally her troops, but the Tory party is dying on its feet

The generational voting split we've often discussed on Westministenders.
He thinks the Tory party has noticed and is pissing its collective Tena over it:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/09/theresa-may-tory-party-dying-reshuffle-conservatives

In all the noise surrounding this week’s reshuffle, one sound in particular has been unmistakable:
that of rising Tory angst about the party’s future.
It might be strange to witness such self-doubt at the moment Britain’s departure from the EU looks set to realise so many Conservative dreams.

But Brexit is perhaps one of those classic pyrrhic victories that cheers the troops while sowing the seeds of a seismic defeat that may lie just around the corner.

Yes, it is quite something that the Tories are still neck and neck with Labour in the polls, and they could still win the next election.
But their position nonetheless suggests encroaching twilight,
for reasons that run much deeper than the prime minister’s shortcomings

…At the general election, Labour was hugely ahead in all age categories under 40.
The fact that the polarities were completely reversed among the over-50s heralded a new politics deeply divided along generational lines,
with the Tories seemingly on the wrong side of history.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 00:26

Oh and we discussed brexiters tend to support authoritarian policies like the death penalty and are less socially liberal

Since most Brexiters are rightwing, no surprise that a majority of Tory party members support the death penalty and only 40% support equal marriage - half the support of other mainstream parties

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-members-twice-as-likely-to-back-return-of-hanging-than-support-soft-brexit-queen-mary-yougov-poll-findsukk_5a4d5f0fe4b0b0e5a7aaceb7

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 00:52

metro.co.uk/2018/01/07/baby-hole-heart-life-saving-operation-cancelled-five-times-7210212/#&gid=1&pid=1

A baby girl born with a hole in her heart had a life-saving operation cancelled five times as the NHS faces unprecendented hospital pressures.
One-year-old Evelyn Johnston-Smith was in desperate need of major surgery to correct the heart defect which was spotted at the 20-week scan.
…
Doctors set November 14, 2017 as an ‘absolute deadline’ for the tot to receive her next operation – but the date came and went without surgery after it was set back five times.

< if you are wondering why Labour are not 20% ahead with crises in NHS and housing: just read any MN threads on those subjects - so many posters blame immigrants, not govt policy >

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 01:08

Queen's bridesmaid, 88, is kept on an NHS trolley for 20 HOURS after contracting pneumonia because every bed in a hospital was being used

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5252239/Queens-bridesmaid-kept-NHS-trolley-20-hours.html#ixzz53jukIWIm

mathanxiety · 10/01/2018 03:28

A relative of mine had an operation canceled in November after going through the entire pre op procedure incl nil by mouth, etc. He was in theatre, staff all ready to roll, surgeon only then took a look at the notes and xrays and declared he couldn't perform the op he had envisaged. Elderly relative given a cup of tea and sent home, given a date right before Christmas, which went fine. Recovery will take a while but no hiccups so far.

I was gobsmacked that the surgeon had not seen any patient notes/ info until 20 minutes before he was to operate.

lonelyplanetmum · 10/01/2018 07:30

Don't want to derail the NHS examples because that is so pivotal.
However I just wanted to mention that Hammond and DD Are having a trip to Berlin and according to the BBC will call for the "most ambitious" economic partnership in the world.

Except we already were a leading member of that,before we voted to relinquish our participation. I don't have the vocabulary to articulate how absurd this is.

Cailleach1 · 10/01/2018 07:53

Merkel won't be discussing a trade deal with them. That was kicked into touch when it was delegated to Barnier to negotiate with the UK's negotiating team Davis not too bothered to make the effort there.

Tanith · 10/01/2018 07:55

I was shocked to see a donations bin in the reception of the Royal Surrey hospital.
This is the hospital that serves, among others, the constituencies of Anne Milton and Jeremy Hunt.

We in Early Years have been advised to have donation bins to make up the shortfall in funding of the 30 hours childcare the Government promised; it was greeted with outrage. I never thought they’d also suggest it for the NHS - or that the NHS would be so desperate, they’d implement it Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2018 08:29

Donations gradually become the norm, then the public service becomes ever more reliant on them ....

Be very worried by the example of schools:

When I was at school (1960s to early 70s) there were no money demands whatsoever by the schools, primary or secondary
(mc grammar pupils demanding my non-existent pocket money for outside charities was just a privileged pupil clique)

No demands for money for books, dressing up days, non-uniform days etc
Because education had the budget it needed from the state, parents weren't forced to pay for a supposedly free service

As I've no DC, I was horrified when I came to MN to find parents keep having to shell out for all these desperate money-making schemes, to keep their school afloat.

When did this become accepted by everyone ? Hmm

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