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Brexit

Westministers: Happy New Year?

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/01/2018 11:37

And so we enter a New Year full of hope that things might just be about to recover from our national nervous breakdown... or perhaps not.

As we have Damien Green ejected from his role as Deputy PM over allegations of inappropriate conduct towards woman and use of porn at the end of last year, 2018 sees a bright new progressive dawn with the appointment to the role of universities regulator of Toby Young. A man who has deleted 20,000 tweets including many which are inappropriate and offensive to women, is a fan of eugenics and hates the working class and disabled.

Meanwhile the NHS is facing a crisis which is totally unexpected to the government and couldn't possibly have been planned for by a man who has over seen it for over five years. Which naturally bodes really well for Brexit planning.

We are apparently planning to join the TPP. Never mind geopolitics we can move the UK to the Pacific region.

We still are not ready for trade talks because the Cabinet can not agree on anything. Not that it sounds like they have actually discussed anything along these lines yet.

Rumours are that the Cabinet - including arch leavers such as Gove - are leaning towards supporting May and a softer option, despite the disgust of Johnson, who once again is the subject of malicious chatter about his sacking in a forthcoming Cabinet Reshuffle.

There is talk of further Tory Party war with the revelation that membership of the party has dropped to a core of just 70,000 hardline authoritarian men, most of whom are over 60. Tory HQ now wants to (perhaps with some good reason to prevent the loons) rewrite the constitution and limit the power of local associations to select candidates. The Tory party is now lining up to be a power struggle between internal authoritarians, who don't like democracy voices or structure.

Meanwhile the Labour Party membership now apparently overwhelmingly looks upon staying in the customs union and single market favourably and is in favour of a second referendum. In opposition to the leadership who are utterly committed to Hard Brexit. Much to the annoyance of Lord Adonis who is pitching a fit about government corruption and incompetence and being accused of being elite because he going skiing. Unlike of prominent Leavers who are in touch with the working class.

And finally Nigel Farage has got a meeting with Barnier. Farage, unlike Clegg, Clarke and Adonis, will not be accused by the Right Wing Press of undermining the government's negotiating position because...

It appears that we are in for another year of Brexit nonsense then.

We've not even heard mention of Gibraltar yet.

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DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 15:27

another wheel coming off the bus ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/09/mps_sceptical_over_plan_for_it_post_customs_union/

MPs have slammed government's approach of touting tech "as its magic solution to customs post Brexit" in a Parliamentary debate.

(contd)

OlennasWimple · 09/01/2018 15:37

The big difference is that Labour looked like a Govt in waiting then, whereas it doesn't now. It's just able to hide its own divisions behind those of in the Tory party.

Indeed. I am not a Jeremy Corbyn fan by any stretch. But I am a fan of democracy, and given that the two party system is what we currently have, I'm so disappointed / angry / scared (depending on the day) that at a time of crisis the Opposition is nowhere to be seen.

Major also seemed reasonable and honest - qualities almost totally lacking in May's Govt.

Except now we know what we know... I wonder whether Major would have survived for so long in an age of social media?

OlennasWimple · 09/01/2018 15:39

Labour Party “are focused on achieving the benefits rather than putting red lines around the structures” of single market and a future customs union presumably means "we don't really know what it will look like, but we think that it has to have these [unrealistic] bells and whistles"?

Aka no concrete, workable proposal

DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 15:45

But I am a fan of democracy, and given that the two party system is what we currently have,

I'd say we have a single party system - the party that wins. After all, any votes not for a winning candidate may as well have been burned.

DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 15:48

I wonder whether Major would have survived for so long in an age of social media?

It might depend what age of social media. If it was early doors, when it was mainly "da kidz", then it would have been irrelevant, I'd guess. (They might have talked, but not voted).

However in this day and age, when the term "silver surfer" is at least 10 years old, it could have been key. I seem to recall Major appealed to a lot of the blue-rinse Tories.

OlennasWimple · 09/01/2018 15:49

I sort of agree, Rossetti. The idea is that we have two parties that have a realistic chance of forming a government; one gets to do so and the other holds it to account. But that is not working right now, both because we have smaller parties fracturing the vote of the two big ones, and because our Opposition is a shambles. And Brexit has been a particularly brutal example of the worst aspects of the FPTP system ("you didn't win, so you should just shut up").

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 15:56

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
^Appointment of Suella Fernandes as Brexit minister is interesting because as far as I can make out there isn't a space at DExEU.
David Davis and Lord Callanan still in post.^
Steve Baker and Robin Walker are Brexit ministers.
Either new job created or someone is getting sacked?

You mean the minister for no deal that was never going to happen.

I am shocked at her appointment to the department. Totally shocked. Totally unpredictable. She'll be like a sore thumb in that department won't she...

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 16:06

Nicholas Soames @NSoames
I am really very disappointed to see that @Dunne4Ludlow has left the Govt.He was an outstanding Minister at both Defence and Health ,unusually both numerate and literate .#impossibletounderstandaverypoordecision

Nicholas Soames‏ @NSoames
Again why move @RoryStewartUK who was a brilliant Minister at FCO/DFID and a really knowledgeable abroad expert to Justice #oh!God

Nicholas Soames is LOVING this reshuffle.

It does seem that the more competent you were at your job the more likely you were to get sacked.

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DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 16:08

The problem is we (well, some) have been brainwashed by the mantra that FPTP leads to "strong government", with the slightly patronising undertone that Johnny Foreigner can't quite manage that (endless jokes about daily Italian elections).

However, as we are seeing, "strong" government isn't really anything to be proud of if it steamrollers the weak and poor in its path.

Looking at my own constituency, the 43,000 people who didn't vote for the returned candidate (and some who did) are effectively being told to "fuck off" in the current climate.

The disaffection that famously led to people to vote for Brexit as a "protest vote" didn't arise from party politics, but from a party political system. And unless that is addressed, the disaffection will remain.

We had our chance, and blew it.

I wonder what the clarion cry for FPTP will be as the countries that overtake the UK for GDP all turn out to have PR ...

(I'm pondering a future where the Tories suddenly realise the only chance they may have at survival will be if the UK has PR .....)

DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 16:10

It does seem that the more competent you were at your job the more likely you were to get sacked.

Shades of Yes Minister, where the civil service were terrified that Hacker would get the department he had been shadowing, as he'd know all about it. Luckily the Cabinet Secretary suggested to the PM that Hacker probably wasn't the best man for the job as having shadowed it, "his thinking might be in a rut ...."

BiglyBadgers · 09/01/2018 16:12

As I am sure everyone on this thread is aware I like the left leaning bits of Corbyn's policies, but if labour don't get the fence post out their arses over brexit soon we are in serious trouble. As has been pointed out on here they will be left holding the can with no money or means to enact the policies that are actually any good. They will simply be bailing shit, so the Tories can sidle back in just in time to put the blame on labour and take any credit for clean up.

They at least have to get louder at decrying the Tory cock ups and show willing to look at ways to make things better. Ideally they would make regretful faces and point out that the majority of their voters are remain and so they need to represent the will of the people they represent.

What a bloody mess we are in!

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 16:21

Oh yeah. I remember this. Very good speech it was too.

David Allen Green*@davidallengreen*
In the days after the referendum vote, at a City seminar, @RoryStewartUK explained the distinction between intention to do Brexit (easy) and capability/capacity (not easy).

Significant insight, at the time and now.

He "gets" it - Brexit is complex.

Did he get the chop from the FOC because he grasped Brexit? (Was he a leak?!!)

poscas‏ @poscas
I like RS but it’s slightly distressing that plaudits should be awarded for such obvious insight.

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
He was not seeking plaudits - but he deserved them, for not a single other politician from any party was making that point in the days following the referendum result.

Even now, many don't get it.

I don't necessarily agree with Rory Stewart but I do generally rate him as 'one of the better ones'. Did so, long before Brexit.

He had a long career in the civil service at the FOC (after a gap year in the military) before becoming an MP. Big on Human Rights. Was a Labour Party member in his teens (!). Personal tutor to William and Harry at one point.

I'm guessing the reason he's gone to Justice is something to do with this:
In January 2014, Stewart was asked by Chris Grayling, Secretary of State for Justice, to lead a Government review into the reasons why a number of British veterans become criminal offenders after returning to civilian life. The review looked at ways in which support and prevention for veterans in the justice system can be improved.
Following his election to Chairman of the Defence Select Committee, Stewart handed over the lead for the review to Stephen Phillips QC MP

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 16:23

John Tomlinson‏ @owlsoflaughter
He also has experienced first hand the poor planning and complexity of going into Afghanistan and Iraq.

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
Exactly.

Always some parallels between lack of realistic planning in major complex situations.

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 16:25

UK Prime Minister‏ @Number10gov
Suella Fernandes MP becomes Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at Department for Exiting the European Union @DExEUgov #Reshuffle

Steve Peers @stevepeers
Shall I mention again that I worked with her on a report on protecting EU27 citizens' rights in the UK after Brexit - and then she voted against the principle of the report?

Yes. Yes I will. No one should trust her.

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RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 16:27

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
Interesting May has summoned all new/moving ministers of state and parliamentary under-secretaries into No 10 for job news. Isn’t it normally done by calls? Wondering whether it’s about showing there’s a new, more diverse generation of Tories in govt?

TOBY YOUNG

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 09/01/2018 16:40

Lewis Goodall
‏*@lewis*_goodall

UK's new Brexit minister Suella Fernandes told @ConHome in June: "No deal is great for us."

mybrainhurtsalot · 09/01/2018 16:53

Is that “No deal” is great for us

Or

No deal (as in none of the deals) is great for us.

I’m guessing the former based on what I know of SF.

DGRossetti · 09/01/2018 16:56

My wife has reminded me that she said of Toby Young ... "If only he'd go." a few nights ago.

I all ask her if she can ask if Theresa May can go tonight ...

mrsreynolds · 09/01/2018 17:30

DG
Can Your dw do that for the whole Tory cabinet??
😂

Peregrina · 09/01/2018 18:06

I'd say we have a single party system - the party that wins.

I once attended a Politics debate where the motion was 'This house believes that whoever the Country votes for the Government always wins'. It seemed to be either, there's not much difference in the parties, when it comes down to it, or they do what they like when they get power. The second interpretation is certainly true of May's Government.

HashiAsLarry · 09/01/2018 18:11

There was a quote on an episode of qi recently. John Kenneth Galbraith.

under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite

RedToothBrush · 09/01/2018 18:19

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
6 new female whips the finale of the reshuffle

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woman11017 · 09/01/2018 18:20

Still no public list of names for little Steven Baker and Fernandez's publicly funded ERG?

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 18:20

Quiz
All the new women get:
a less
b more
than male members of the cabinet?

woman11017 · 09/01/2018 18:22

Bonus question:
On which day are they allowed to speak?

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