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Westminstenders: Blue Passports

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2017 14:57

Yay for the blue passports.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all

May next year bring us £350 million for the NHS, cake, unicorns, financial passporting, access to the single market, Irish love and of course control to the people.

(Apologies been up to my eyeballs. Normal service will resume after Christmas).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
shhhfastasleep · 02/01/2018 20:00

An Irish passport gives you EU rights to live and work in Europe. And study.
Which is why we are all getting one thanks to Irish parents.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 02/01/2018 21:24

The whole assault on the 'undeserving poor' is about this. Eugenics rhetoric is the natural next step on this narrative.

This is not new though.

The unemployable & inefficients should be sent to penal colonies, the 'wrong sort' of poor shouldn't receive assistance or relief as it just encourages them to breed further generations of 'starving inefficients' etc.
Child benefit should only be paid to (or better rates paid to) middle class parents to encourage them to breed rather than the feckless poor etc.

Who said those things?
The 'father of the welfare state'.

Holliewantstobehot · 02/01/2018 21:25

I think TM is going to wish that Lord Adonis never resigned. Perhaps he will become the new farage (in a good way) always popping up on QT, being the go to anti brexit voice in the media.

LineysRumBaba · 02/01/2018 21:28

And one good thing that Andrew Adonis is, is articulate. Unlike David Davis and, frequently, Boris J and Theresa M.

missmoon · 02/01/2018 21:34

I have never had time for him before (don’t agree on HS2, for instance), but Adonis has been great these last few days. Maybe just the kind of voice we needed, given his background?

LineysRumBaba · 02/01/2018 21:38

Yes, I would be rather nervous if I were the Tory Cabinet now facing Andrew Adonis and Keir Starmer.

woman11017 · 02/01/2018 22:02

@Andrew_Adonis
Happy to fly to Qatar to debate rail fares & Stagecoach/Virgin bailout with Chris Grayling, if that’s easier for him. It costs about the same as a London-Leeds return!

Sadly Grayling in Qatar is unavailable for Newsnight tonight, but luckily Adonis is offering to go at and meet him there.

woman11017 · 02/01/2018 22:23

@faisalislam
Home Office went to trouble of rebutting Times reporting that many people assessing their own old passports concluded that they were black, not “iconic” blue...

@ukhomeoffice
The new British passport will be returning to its previous navy blue. Read our response to the incorrect @thetimes article on our blog ow.ly/brcM30huVdd

@faisalislam
Home Office current advice on obtaining your first adult passport: “Follow the process if the last passport you had was an old black or blue passport”
Home Office rebuttal blog on passports: “it has never been black”

@faisalislam
Oh dear. The official new Government online passport application service also refers to a picture of the old passport as “black” or blue - it is truly Orwellian to suggest “never been black” - it’s literally on the form.

@faisalislam
Home Office has now emailed a response to this tweet: ⚫️🔵 🧐
“This guidance was intended for those who were issued dark navy passports but were unclear of the colour”.

Imagine if homeless people were dying on our streets, and hospitals were in melt down. And there was a right wing coup trying to circumvent the constitution.

And that the Home Office, which illegally deports mums, and unable to cope with its own current racist immigration policy, was nevertheless trying to get a lie out about another lie about the colour of its new pass cards.

Imagine.

squoosh · 02/01/2018 22:25

I love Adonis' doggedness with Grayling. Grayling will be checking under his bed at night and Adonis will be there with a camera crew saying 'are you ready to debate this now?'

HesterThrale · 02/01/2018 22:54

That whole passport rebuttal thing. It's ridiculous. Who instructed the Home Office to put out these statements? Why should it matter so much?
It reminds me of the statements put out by Sean Spicer and Kelly-Anne Conway in the early Trump days about, e.g, the size of the inauguration crowd. You know - 'alternative facts' and 'fake news'.
If it wasn't so sinister, you'd laugh out loud.

woman11017 · 02/01/2018 23:02

Lots of NHS hospitals tweeting about crisis.
This exchange is particularly telling.

@drbenwhite
been told Milton Keynes hospital in meltdown. So bad, a senior A&E dr asked to close hospital. &there were no ambulances serving MK for a time on Sat night due to queues at hospital. &staff genuinely fear for patient safety esp in the corridor.

@JoeHMK
Don’t believe everything you hear! Hospital very busy, yes, team @MKHospital doing a brilliant job to keep patients safe and cared for. @SCAS999 have also done a fantastic job in difficult times.

@drbenwhite
I am sure. But the above tweet is true, according to staff working in the hospital.

@drbenwhite
& I have more information but will not tweet at req of staff.

@JoeHMK
If there is more you feel you can share privately please DM and I will follow up

@drbenwhite
Staff terrified of losing job but more terrified that patients are being put at risk . Decline to be named

RedToothBrush · 03/01/2018 00:01

Constitutional law epic mindblowing thread alert!!!!

This is amazing!!!

George Peretz qc @ georgeperetzqc
A thread about the potentially very topical subject of the creation of new peers to get controversial legislation through the House of Lords.

  1. It has been suggested that the Government wants to create enough new peers to ensure that the EU Withdrawal Bill passes through the HoL unscathed.
  1. The problem the Government has created for itself is that the current parliamentary session, which started last year, will carry on until 2019 – after the planned Brexit day.
  1. The decision to have one long session (2017-19) is a decision of the Government: it is the Crown that prorogues Parliament (brings a session to an end) and then opens a new session.
  1. But the effect is to make it impossible to use the Parliament Acts in order to get a Bill enacted that has been passed by the HoC but rejected (or amended in a way unacceptable to a HoC majority) by the HoL
  1. That is because the Parliament Acts apply only where the HoC passes effectively the same Bill in two successive sessions.
  1. So the Government may consider either creating enough new peers to give it reliable support on all important votes, or threatening to create peers if the HoL votes for amendments unacceptable to the Government.
  1. Would such a step be constitutional, however? (A difficult term in the U.K. context: it doesn’t necessarily mean “challengeable in Court”: there are conventions that are not.)
  1. Since 1911, no Government has had to employ this threat. None have had to. The Parliament Acts enabled measures opposed by the Lords to become law anyway. On matters ranging from Irish Home Rule to the ban on fox-hunting.
  1. Ld Bingham in Jackson [2005]UKHL56, 25: the threat “was a procedure necessarily unwelcome to a constitutional monarch, rightly anxious to avoid any appearance of participation in politics, and one which constitutionally-minded politicians were accordingly reluctant to invoke”
  1. Lord Bingham observed that one of the purposes of the Parliament Acts was, precisely, to obviate the need for any such threat.

  2. That threat did though have to made in 1910/11 in order to get the HoL to pass the Parliament Bill (which became the 1911 Act).

  3. It was not, however, regarded as inevitable that the King would agree to create enough peers to get the Bill through. The history is explained in detail in Roy Jenkins’ great history of the constitutional crisis “Mr Balfour’s Poodle”.

  4. The King was first asked by PM Asquith, in November 1910, to give a contingent but secret promise conditional on the Government winning the proposed general election of December 2010.

  5. That election was to be fought on the very question of whether the HoL should pass the Parliament Bill (which it had just rejected).

15.The King received conflicting advice from his private secretaries. In the end, he agreed to give such a promise (partly because he was told, wrongly as it happened, that Balfour, who was then Leader of the Opposition, wld refuse to form a government if Asquith then resigned)

16.After the Asquith Government was re-elected, the Bill passed the HoC again, and was effectively rejected by wrecking amendments, again, by the HoL.

17.At that point, the Government (with the King’s agreement) told the Opposition that the King would agree to create enough peers. This came as a shock to some of the Opposition. The King had however been reluctant to allow this threat to be made any earlier.

18.The HoL then backed down and passed the Bill.

19.The lesson from that is that it was not regarded as entirely obvious what the duty of the King was when asked by a PM to create enough peers to get a Bill through the HoL in a form acceptable to the Government.

20.The doubt is, indeed, implicit in the language used by Lord Bingham: it is the fact that there could be some doubt as to what the Queen should do that makes her decision necessarily political.

21.Standing back, it is not surprising that there should be some doubt as to whether the Queen is obliged to accede to a request by her PM that, in effect, substantially affects the composition of one of the legislature and does so in a way that suits the Government of the day.

22.The UK constitution has few enough checks and balances against what Lord Hailsham memorably called the elective dictatorship of a PM with a HoC majority. The HoL is one of them.

  1. Those doubts are perhaps even stronger where the PM has not managed to win a majority for her party’s programme.

24.If the HoL’s refusal to pass a Bill save with certain amendments is unacceptable, the answer is to use the Parliament Acts, not to pack the HoL with new peers.

  1. For the Queen to be obliged accede to such a request by her PM would, arguably, unbalance the constitution by giving the executive a wholly improper degree of control over the legislature.

26.As to the point that the Parliament Acts can’t in practice be used here, that is the consequence of the Government’s own decisions (as to the single session and as to the timing of the A50 notification which creates the urgency): it shd not affect the constitutional position.

27.Further, given the need to avoid the Queen being asked to take any decision that is politically controversial, the PM is, I’d suggest, required to try all other approaches before seeking to employ the creation of peers as a device to overcome potential obstacles in the HoL.

  1. It is not something that should be done or threatened in anticipation of problems that have not yet arisen.

29.It is also, I would tentatively suggest, quite possible that the appointment of new peers simply in order to force through controversial legislation without having to use the Parliament Acts would be unlawful, and could be judicially reviewed.

  1. Since the GCHQ case it is clear that acts of the Royal prerogative can be judicially reviewed.

31.The Parliament Acts are, as Lord Bingham observed, designed to make such action unnecessary. If the Government with a HoC majority wishes to enact legislation in a form unacceptable to the HoL, those Acts provide the route that should be used.

32.The point here is a familiar one, dating from the famous De Keyser case. Where there is a statutory scheme to deal with a problem, the royal prerogative gives way.

33 Here, the statutory scheme is the Parliament Acts. Those Acts displace the prerogative power to create peers with the avowed purpose of altering the make-up of the legislature.

  1. That power that is, in any event, highly dubious in any constitutional arrangement where there is any attempt at separation of the powers.

  2. So, I would suggest, the appointment of new peers solely to railroad through legislation without resorting to the Parliament Acts could not just be contrary to convention but be unlawful and subject to legal challenge.

  3. Views tentative at this stage. But this is a topic well suited for legal Twitter. Fire away!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 03/01/2018 06:36

So Donnie has insecurity about the size of his button. Who'd have thought?

Also check out the thread on Toby Young by @wordsbyana this morning.

Its a greatest hits compilation of all his creepy sexually inappropriate tweets about women.

It sadly is missing a reference to the time he put on a blonde wig and pretended to be a lesbian to try and pull one.

www.nosacredcows.co.uk/golden_oldies/360/i_was_a_lesbian_for_a_night.html

Happy new year everyone. We are three days in and we are already here.

OP posts:
woman11017 · 03/01/2018 07:33

If it wasn't such a pickle, I'd be loving this constitutional law crisis.
Toby Young: dead cat to distract from:
a NHS crisis
b Stagecoach/Virgin bailout
c brexit
Or all 3?

woman11017 · 03/01/2018 07:48

But..............

@PinkNews
Government's new university regulator appointee called lesbians 'hard-core dykes' and George Clooney 'queer as a coot'

@mattholehouse
Possibly coincidental — but U.K. accession to TPP and Nafta a mainstay of the Legatum Institute platform, under its “pathway to prosperity” report

DentalDilemma · 03/01/2018 08:00

Interview with James O'Neill (former chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, former Conservative government minister, economist who coined the term BRIC) in German newspaper Welt today:

www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article172100127/Brexit-BRIC-Erfinder-Jim-O-Neill-kritisiert-britische-Regierung.html

A few key points, all things posters on this thread have been saying for the past 18 months:

  • critisizes Brexiters' obsession with the white Commonwealth, pointing out that NZ's economy is the same size as that of Greece and China's growth in one year = an economy the size of Australia's
  • basically calls Fox and BoJo idiots for spending far to much time in NZ
  • embarrassing that May hast been to Saudi twice but has only been to China once for G20 where no bilateral talks happened
  • points out that China is Germany's biggest trading partner so obviously no need to leave EU to trade globally
  • says Continental European economies in great shape, Brexit stupid, hopes reason will prevail in the end
Eeeeeowwwfftz · 03/01/2018 08:54

woman if it’s supposed to be a distraction technique then it’s not working because (a) featured very prominently on the bbc 10 last night, along with an item on fare rises and Grayling running scared (connected to b) though to be fair there was no mention of Brexit (probably because there’s not actually much to report just now - we could just as well criticise this thread for running at half its usual speed over the last two weeks). Perhaps you’re referring to social media, where it is perhaps true that the far right windbags seem to be yammering on more about Young than his critics, which could be an attempt to move focus away from more serious issues like the nhs crisis.

Somewhat bizarrely, the 10 did feature a report about increasing numbers of grammar school places in the Cotswolds. I have no idea what it was doing there, unless it’s to soften people up for an upcoming announcement on this front. Nothing to do with Brexit of course, but it does strike me that the same kind of arguments are advanced for both, whereby increasingly convoluted justifications are constructed in order to avoid acknowledging the real, but politically incorrect, motivation that lurks behind.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 03/01/2018 09:03

Here’s a tweet that might interest some. A complaint to the bbc about the use of ‘Brexiteer’ vs ‘Remoaner’.

twitter.com/turnermalcolm/status/948240983015247873

woman11017 · 03/01/2018 09:47

Young is a Nazi; he's provided a focus for the hard of thinking fascists to unite behind.

Crisis porn is not providing informed reporting on the abolition of the NHS.

Personal attacks on Lord Adonis is not providing informed reporting on another unexplained publicly funded bung to a private company.

@mrjamesob
"Andrew Adonis has leveled several serious allegations at Chris Grayling. Mr Grayling is here to talk to us about them but has insisted that Adonis is neither present nor permitted to respond directly. Why's that, Mr Grayling?"

'insisted'.

"How can it be fascism if Marks and Sparks is still open?" syndrome.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2018 10:26

(German press)* Former Treasury Minister slams UK’s „fantasy“ approach to post-Brexit trade*

(btw, he invented the acronym BRIC - Brazil, Russia, India, China)

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article172116791/Jim-O-Neill-Former-Treasury-Minister-slams-UK-s-fantasy-approach-to-post-Brexit-trade.html

… O’Neill also expressed doubts about the Government’s approach to focus future trade links with the Commonwealth.

With the exception of India those countries’ economies are, in Lord O’Neill’s opinion, too small for what British business will need after Brexit.

"It’s kind of fantasy.
This year, China is going to grow by 6.7 percent.
In nominal GDP-dollar terms, China will create a new Australia this year.
It will create 4 New Zealands this year.
And Liam Fox and our ludicrous foreign minister spend half of their life going to New Zealand.
It’s mad.“

Brexiters in May’s cabinet like Boris Johnson or Michael Gove were „very intellectual, smart people.
But they have no clue about the world of economy.
They are clueless, sadly.
Clueless.“

O’Neill’s global economic outlook for 2018 is optimistic, with the exception of Britain.

"The world economy is entering the end of this year in my view the strongest it’s been in ten years.
With 8 of the 10 largest economies of the world all accelerating at the same time.
So the world is probably growing by more than 4 percent right now.^

Unfortunately, the UK and India are the two that are not. And ours has been self-inflicted"

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2018 10:27

UK Government officials considered recruiting psychopaths 'to keep order' after nuclear attack

(1980s files released by the National Archives)

Look like they didn't they wait for the nukes to explode before recruiting psychopaths right into govt

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-government-considered-recruiting-psychopaths-to-keep-order-after-nuclear-attack-9832910.html

DGRossetti · 03/01/2018 11:14

So Donnie has insecurity about the size of his button. Who'd have thought?

My DB is in the US, having taken (more "been required to become") a US citizen.

Chatting last night, he commented that it seemed for some Americans, the entire past 70 years of nuclear expenditure has all been worth it, if POTUS has the biggest dick on the world stage.

There really are people that think like that. And they have guns.

Violetparis · 03/01/2018 11:43

@KathyBurke has a great response to Boris Johnson's tweet supporting Toby Young

RhiannonOHara · 03/01/2018 12:05

Violet, just looked it up and it made me Grin.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 03/01/2018 12:16

Petition opposing boris’ appointment

www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-sack-toby-young-from-university-watchdog-post