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Brexit

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Westminstenders: Blue Passports

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/12/2017 14:57

Yay for the blue passports.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all

May next year bring us £350 million for the NHS, cake, unicorns, financial passporting, access to the single market, Irish love and of course control to the people.

(Apologies been up to my eyeballs. Normal service will resume after Christmas).

OP posts:
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37
howabout · 27/12/2017 12:14

Very interesting reflection on the impact of UK elections of MEPs (24 of 73 are UKIP) and the impact or lack of in the EU Parliament. Democracy at work or not?

britainseurope.ideasoneurope.eu/2014/07/11/britaininep/

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 12:31

To make UK MEPs count in the EP, UK MEPs need to get off their arses & out of the pubs, to turn up and to vote

UK MEPs have by far the lowest attendence record of any other country
Even when the UK's interests were at stake

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html

Farage personally had the 2nd worst attendance record of the entire EP, all parties & countries

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/only-one-person-eu-parliament-8302643

Even when UKIP did attend, they chose to abstain or even oppose measures to help workers' rights, to help equality, e.g.

Westminstenders: Blue Passports
BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 12:35

The Uk will lose its voice in the EP after 29 March 2019.
However, the EP might not even notice their absence - since absence was the norm for UK MEPs

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 13:01

(paywall) Port of Rotterdam reveals scale of Brexit challenge

https://www.ft.com/content/b5ee770a-ced1-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

leaving the EU is not just about negotiation and legislation; it is also about implementation and infrastructure.

“English ports are not equipped with the same facilities as Rotterdam, which is why most of it comes here,”
[see chart for pathetic UK ports capacity]

says Ricardo Rackwitz, the site’s commercial manager…
“It’s actually quicker to send it here first.
Then we put it on pallets and send 10 or 12 per cent of it on to the UK.”

Once Britain leaves the EU’s customs union, the UK will no longer be able to rely on the port facilities in Rotterdam or elsewhere in the EU
— and will instead have to develop its own, for trade both with Europe and beyond.
< no signs of this even stating - and it will take several years >

according to the Office for National Statistics,
as much as half of the Netherlands’ annual €40bn goods exports to the UK come from third countries

Westminstenders: Blue Passports
woman11017 · 27/12/2017 15:08

Another Kipper gone:

@NathanGillMEP
It’s with great sadness and relief that I am resigning as AM for North Wales and Mandy Jones will take my place. www.facebook.com/NathanGillOfficial/posts/2082719275281746

howabout · 27/12/2017 15:15

The Today Programme et al and their somewhat selective analysis of trade have been bothering the Vulcan somewhat.

johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/12/26/the-bbc-today-programme-recycles-the-trade-deal-scare/

Here is his other side of the story for balance.

johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/10/25/how-would-we-spend-all-the-tariff-money-if-the-eu-wants-to-damage-their-trade-with-us/

This article is specifically on the Netherlands as researched by their parliament (not sure if there is a more recent update(?))

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-netherlands/dutch-report-urges-strong-britain-eu-trade-ties-after-brexit-idUKKBN16S17A

I assume the International Flower Traders will still want to sell flowers in the UK and so will find a way.

howabout · 27/12/2017 16:06

According to Eurostat, official statisticians to the EU, the UK ports handle 500m tonnes, 2nd in the EU to the Netherlands which handles 600m tonnes. The difference is, that the UK does not act as a staging post for mainland Europe as Rotterdam does.

The Port of London is not even the UK's largest port.

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Gross_weight_of_seaborne_goods_handled_in_all_ports_(in_million_tonnes)_2005-2015.png

woman11017 · 27/12/2017 16:22

Comedy fun from DEXEU

@AdamBernard_HA
More in hope than expectation, I'm reading through the report for my professional sector — Life Sciences. www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/Exiting-the-European-Union/17-19/Sectoral%20Analyses/21-Life-Sciences-Report.pdf

Twenty pages. First one is boilerplate; then ten pages just summarising the size and nature of the industry as it stands

(it's a high-profit, high-productivity industry; ≈half of exports are to the EU, and about a quarter of imports are from the EU)

The next nine pages list (not unhelpfully!) the EU regs and standards that affect the industry.

The final page contains the following, about which I can only say █████████ ██ █████ ███ █████ ███████ ████ and the ████ ████ ███████.

It seems that DEXEU are illiterate like many other cultists:
'Pharma cueticals'.

Not surprising really when their orders come in cyrillic.

Satire that makes more sense, Lord Buckethead's xmas address:

Westminstenders: Blue Passports
BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 16:22

If the UK can no longer route so much of its non-EU trade through EU ports like Rotterdam, then the govt must build customs infrastructure
or there will be a lot of empty shelves, not just for flowers

  • the UK imports half its food and hasn't been self-sufficient since long before WW1

So how many years for compulsory purchase orders, plans, recruitment & training of Customs staff ?
and the govt haven't started on this yet.
I wonder when they will.
If they will - maybe at the last moment of transition, they will make yet another humiliating climb-down
Never mind, the public will think Brexit happened on 29 March 2019 and will never notice unless the Heil does.

Whatever happens, Deadwood and his chums won't go short of luxuries, even if the public get rationing on essentuals

Tariffs are paid by Uk importers, i.e. UK consumers
not by EU exporters

So, is Deadwood deciding what to spend money obtained from the UK ?
Probably from ordinary members of the public, not from his wealthy chums who avoid most taxes already.

Of course Deadwood and his chums can easily afford to pay tariffs on what they import, but they may just move abroad, following Moggy's investments

Don't Deadwood and Moggy belong to those Ultras who want a WTO deal ?
To remake Great Britain as Great Singapore ?
The bonfire of workers' rights to increase profits.
Slashing taxes for business and the wealthiest ==> slashing welfare
If you are fans of the most ruthless of the hard right Tories, then you are obviously not a Lexiter, howabout If you ever were

woman11017 · 27/12/2017 16:27

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/registering-to-vote-and-the-electoral-register

Hope Lord B is standing in the May local elections in which EU/UK citizens are eligible to vote.

No need to even vote tactically, just for #stopbrexit candidates. Nice and simple.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 16:31

On anything but EEA / EFTA terms, UK ports are expected to be log-jammed, with huge lorry parks on the motorways
UK ports have warned they can't handle this
Let alone the 50% of UK trade that the Netherland ports currently handle

So that's essential UK imports buggered: food, raw materials, just-in-time components

The UK can't require other countries to build up their infrastructure, especially when noone knows what deal, if any, there will be
So that's UK exports buggered and not just to the EU

After 31 December 2020, the UK faces chaos unless it capitulates to EEA/ EFTA
The EU is using the time to adapt its supply chains
The UK govt is still in lala land

DGRossetti · 27/12/2017 16:34

So how many years for compulsory purchase orders, plans, recruitment & training of Customs staff ?

Could this be the point at which a lot of more landed leavers suddenly realise how the UKs membership of the EU has actually saved their farmland grouse fields ?

howabout · 27/12/2017 16:40

The complete guide to UK ports for the FT Christmas research crew - the tabloid of progressive economic thought indeed Xmas Hmm

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/646188/port-freight-statistics-2016-revised.pdf

DGRossetti · 27/12/2017 17:13

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/26/philip-hammond-urged-publish-treasury-brexit-impact-studies

Philip Hammond has come under pressure to publish another set of hidden documents relating to how a series of possible Brexit outcomes, including no deal, will impact on the economy.

Twenty-five Labour MPs have written to the chancellor demanding that he release the studies, which have so far been kept confidential, after he told a select committee that the work had been done.

“The public have a right to know what the impact of Brexit will be for them and for their families,” the politicians, who all support the Open Britain campaign, claimed.

The move comes after a similar suggestion by David Davis that his Brexit department had carried out 58 sectoral analyses resulted in immense pressure to publish the findings.

The Brexit secretary was heavily criticised after putting out documents that he admitted had been stripped of commercially sensitive material and anything considered detrimental to the UK’s negotiating position.

Davis avoided being charged with contempt of parliament over the controversy by persuading MPs that 58 separate impact assessments had never existed in that particular form.

Now a fresh push for more transparency on the government’s Brexit preparations has emerged because Hammond told the Treasury select committee this month that the government had “modelled and analysed a wide range of potential alternative structures between the European Union and the United Kingdom”.

He said the work “informs our negotiating position”.In a new letter, Labour MPs including Chris Leslie, Catherine West and Maria Eagle asked the chancellor to publish this analysis so their constituents could know what the impact of Brexit would be on themselves and their families.

“Without access to the latest taxpayer-funded analysis and research, parliament will be hamstrung in its ability to scrutinise the government’s approach and to present the facts to our constituents,” they said.

“It is vital that light is shed on the modelling and analysis that the Treasury has carried out. The best way to achieve that would be for the analysis to be published in its entirety.”

They claimed that leaving the EU would result in “profound and wide-ranging economic consequences”, so it was right for the public to understand what could happen.

Their letter was sent after questions surrounding what “end state” the government was aiming for rose in prominence as Theresa May and her cabinet embarked on their first formal talks about the issue.

Two meetings of May’s Brexit inner cabinet and then of the full ministerial team began with a presentation by the senior civil servant, Oliver Robbins. His work is likely to have to drawn on internal research assessing how each possible Brexit outcome is likely to hit the economy.

The discussions are critical as British and EU negotiators prepare to enter the second phase of Brexit talks, on an implementation period and then the future trading arrangement.

The controversy surrounding Davis concerned how British sectors would be affected by Brexit, while the information referenced by Hammond refers to the overall impact of different trading outcomes.The Labour politicians, also including Alison McGovern, Stephen Doughty and Stella Creasy, said parliament needed that information now as Brexit legislation made its way through parliament. In their letter they asked:

^Has this work been carried out independently by the Treasury?
Does the analysis differ significantly from the Treasury’s pre-referendum analysis?^

^Has the Treasury shared the analysis with DExEU and No 10? If not, how can it be said to be informing our negotiating position?
Has the prime minister read the conclusions of the analysis of each modelled outcome?^

In response, the Treasury pointed to Hammond’s comments at the time of the select committee hearing earlier this month.

^Asked by a committee member, Catherine McKinnell, if the information ought to be placed in the public domain given that it would help inform the public and parliament about the final outcome, Hammond suggested that it ought to be published but at a later date.
“When we get to the point where we have a deal negotiated and agreed, and it is being put before parliament, at that stage the maximum amount of analysis being placed in the public domain would be helpful,” he said.^

“At this stage, when we have not even begun the negotiation yet, I am afraid that to put our analysis in the public domain would be deeply unhelpful to the negotiation. There is no decision for parliament to make at this point. Parliament’s decision point will be when the government have negotiated a deal and are presenting it to parliament for endorsement.”

But a Labour MP, Leslie, argued that that would be too late as MPs would by then be faced with a single option. He said: “MPs are weighing up vital issues right now – on the withdrawal bill, the customs bill, the trade bill and so on. Only revealing the need to shut the gate after the horse has bolted would be the height of irresponsibility.”

The MPs also pointed out that Davis had been disparaging about Treasury work during the referendum itself.

“The Treasury carried out analysis during the referendum of different possible outcomes, including continued single market membership, completing a Canada-style free trade agreement, and falling back on to WTO [World Trade Organisation] terms. However, in March, the Brexit secretary dismissed this analysis, saying the Treasury’s forecasts had been shown to not be ‘robust’,” they wrote.

Davis’s comment, in front of a select committee, was in reference to modelling by government officials that was used by David Cameron and the remain campaign team in 2016.

The Brexit secretary added that May’s government had not by then (March 2017) forecast the likely impact of a no-deal scenario but would try to quantify the impacts of different outcomes.

By December he said the government would “at some stage … do the best we can to quantify the effect of different negotiating outcomes as we come up with them”. The next day Hammond suggested that much of that work had already been done.

woman11017 · 27/12/2017 17:27

^Research and analysis
HM Treasury analysis: the long-term economic impact of EU membership and the alternatives (Archived^

The Treasury’s analysis shows that the UK would be permanently poorer if it left the EU and adopted any of these models. Productivity and GDP per person would be lower in all these alternative scenarios, as the costs would substantially outweigh any potential benefit of leaving the EU. The analysis finds that the annual loss of GDP per household under the three alternatives after 15 years would be

^£2,600 in the case of EEA membership
£4,300 in the case of a negotiated bilateral agreement
£5,200 in the case of WTO membership^

www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-treasury-analysis-the-long-term-economic-impact-of-eu-membership-and-the-alternatives

BiglyBadgers · 27/12/2017 17:46

Just a heads up...the interview on R4 right now is hilarious. The conservatives may not have kept any promises on reducing the deficit, but it's OK because they have made progress towards keeping a promise.

BiglyBadgers · 27/12/2017 17:47

And young people should be grateful that corporation tax is low, because apparently it's actually benefitting them...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/12/2017 18:35

Labour councillors sign open letter urging party to change its Brexit position

www.politics.co.uk/news/2017/12/27/labour-councillors-sign-open-letter-urging-party-to-change-i

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/12/2017 18:36

Labour voters could abandon party over Brexit stance, poll finds

Party urged to clarify policy as poll finds more than half of Labour voters oppose leadership backing Brexit

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/27/labour-voters-could-abandon-party-over-brexit-stance-poll-finds?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/12/2017 18:54

Republican Candidate Goes Full Nazi: Jews "Pretend" to be White to Undermine the White Race

Paul Nehlen is openly spewing white nationalist hate speech as he runs to unseat Paul Ryan. He won't be the last.

thedailybanter.com/.amp/2017/12/paul-nehlen-anti-semitism/?__twitter_impression=true

Joyce Alene
@JoyceWhiteVance
Pro-Trump candidate drops dog whistles & goes full bore anti-Semitic. For GOP who were ok w/Moore in AL, this is what comes next. For the rest of us, time to stand up & say we won’t accept this. Whether it’s Jews, Muslims, LGBTQ or immigrants, Not OK.

Hend Amry
@LibyaLiberty
'Nehlen and his hate speech are not outliers, they're a sign of things to come. Republicans allowed white nationalism to take root and flourish in their party and they haven't even begun to harvest that bitter crop.'

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 18:55

btl Guardian comment on their passport article Xmas Grin

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP IT ALL OF YOU !!!

This is Canada, one of your adult children, speaking.
You're showing signs of late onset dementia.

Us and the other kids are seriously considering intervening and placing you in a secure home. Xmas Grin

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 27/12/2017 18:57

Sorry! Wrong thread Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 19:01

And we thought Ryan was fullbore hard right wingnut ...

Demonstrating yet again that however bad things are - they can always get even worse

I wonder how that alliance of Netanyahu’s fascists with the white supremacists will go,
if the latter clearly want to persecute Jews as well as African- Americans and as well as anyone to the left of George W Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 19:02

pain It fits in here too Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2017 19:04

H.L. Mencken:

"The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.

The demaslave (a demagogue's slave) is one who listens to what these idiots have to say and pretends to believe it himself."

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