Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.

[RedToothBrush]

Hot Tramp, I love you so!

The European Parliament have agreed to progress talks to the next stage. Despite Brexiteers saying its not legally binding, it is apparent that the EU certainly disagree.

Not only that, but the wording of the deal goes further. It binds us to not being able to agree and new trade deals for 2 years.

The All Important Amendment 7 to the Great Repel Bill has been successful. May’s power grab has a set back.

By just FOUR votes the government was defeated. How May will be regretting that pointless election tonight.

Parliament will have a meaningful vote on the exit terms.

But don’t be too excited. Brussels might not like this as May can not guarantee the UK will agree to a deal. It means the the EU are negotiating with parliament NOT May now.

There is also the suggestion that the mood of parliament is changing and is beginning to lean more towards a EFTA / EEA type deal.

But equally this could also send us to the brink with a deal from the EU that could be rejected by parliament.

The stakes just got higher.

Where does Rosindell get the idea that most Brits were unhappy with the burgundy passports? Everyone I know was happy, or rather, oblivious to, the colour of the passport. Anyone younger than about 50 probably never even had, or were aware of, the blue one.

Young folk I know are going to be embarrassed to use the blue one. Like a symbol of separating yourself off from the world as you travel around the world.

Personally I couldn't care less what colour my passport is. I do care about the rights, freedoms and opportunities that passport entities me to. Striping away of these is what a blue passport will be associated with for me.

Exactly Kenn.

hester from his own head mainly. The same one that thinks what we need is the national anthem played at the end of the day on the bbc.

The fishing industry supplies fish to fish and chip shops'.
Fishing industry is mainly in the coastal areas

Not even on the level of an eight year old writing a project about the fishing industry.

Young folk I know are going to be embarrassed to use the blue one

Yes it will be embarrassing.

Really trying to see the other side here. Did people feel embarrassed by the EU passport? If so why? I always felt very happy about being an EU citizen as it meant I could go anywhere I wanted in Europe, well the EU plus EEA Switzerland.

My first thought about blue passports, was that they were traitors passports. The climate could change, and could change suddenly. I have said this before on these threads but a commentator said that when the authority of a PM went, it drained away suddenly, it wasn't a slow process of attrition. I think the same can be said of public opinion, there will be a tipping point.

As for the chump of an MP who wants the national anthem played on the BBC, is he old enough to remember when cinemas used to close with it? They stopped because the rush for the exits was embarrassing.

But we could go to places before, cry the Leavers. Not as easily, we couldn't.

"But surely that is obvious from publicly available info about our main income sources"

Simpler - "they" are the other party so will know precisely the fund flows, timings, forward predictions, supply chain dependencies and even costs.

I guess the bit "our" team may wish to keep quiet is which sector(s) we are willing to lose / barter against - and of course letting that out really would cause ructions in the country - eg any willingness to trade off Gibraltar and fishing rights for passporting.

I do remember the currency controls woman. We took two small children to the south of France for three weeks with £80. We had a trailer packed with food. The orange juice leaked into the packs of dried mince and we had boeuf à l'orange all holiday.
I can't wait for the grandchildren to experience it. 🤔

The blue passports are looking as though they are going to be made in France or Germany

I missed this from yesterday - apologies if it’s already been posted on the thread

Brexit: Secret legal advice on whether Article 50 can be revoked could be revealed in Commons vote

Theresa May has been accused of suppressing advice that the Article 50 notification can be withdrawn - even without Brussels’ agreement

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-article-50-revoked-theresa-may-secret-legal-advice-commons-vote-mps-eu-withdrawal-bill-latest-a8122626.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

@JasnaBadzak
Everyone who recently received #UKIP leaflet, paid with your taxes, should report it to EU anti fraud office here:
ec.europa.eu/anti-fraud/olaf-and-you/report-fraud_en …
#UKIP are already under investigation for abusing taxpayers money for political purposes and doing it again. Pls report.

I guess the bit "our" team may wish to keep quiet is which sector(s) we are willing to lose / barter against - and of course letting that out really would cause ructions in the country.

True. But that wouldn't be in the impact part of the sectoral analyses. That's basically down to tactics.

I have reported the UKIP leaflet to the EU. It was a joke to hear about UKIP MEPs working - the only work they do is press a few numbers on the ATM so that they can withdraw their EU salaries.

@peregrina - "wasn't" implies it was in the past - sadly its still going on currently at £435 billion and extended in November upto £585 billion

It is most likely that the govt wants to keep the impact analysis from the public, not from Barnier & co
At least until after Brexit has happened and the public are impacted

Can't have the plebs in mass demonstrations protesting that they didn't vote to be poorer

The EU has published their - far more professional - impact assessments, as have individual governments of countries, e.g. Germany, Sweden

Funnily enough, no worries on the EU side that it gives away their negotiating tactics
Probably because the E27 public has shown no desire to give a Special Snowflake deal to awkward buggers who will soon no longer be members.
In fact, except for the RoI who are getting quite cross with the UK, Brexi5 is hardly mentioned in the EU press

The Uk should realise that previously, as a member, they negotiated
BUT
now as a soon to be 3rd country, they just choose which of the available 3rd country templates they want
then there is a bit of negotiating to fine tune that, but it is nothing like cake

NO sector analyses would discuss tactics, what the govts might give up
That would be a totally separate document

• at the moment, tactics would be a blank sheet of paper !

The Cabinet have had their first ever meeting to discuss the form of Brexit
and have decided on cake & unicorns
because the Tory party would tear itself to pieces if it ever comes to deciding between red lines and the economy

A good deal for the economy depends on whether the Uk is prepared to give up its red lines on FOM and ECJ.

The EU would not wreck its single market even if the UK handed over Gibraltar completely to Spain.
Spain - like the other 26 countries - has a veto to block a deal, but can't force a deal through, even if it wanted to.

More gems from the sectoral analyses from the guardian article upthread.

10 startling insights from the Brexit reports

Hide
“The food chain includes agriculture”
“The demand for air travel drives the demand for aircraft”
“In coastal communities fishing brings employment and economic activity”
“As an island nation, the UK has been dependent on the sea … throughout history”
“Banks are found all over the UK, largely in proportion to population”
“[Industry] is characterised by some very large firms … and a large number of small firms”
“Short crossing[s] tend to be favoured for time-critical cargoes”
“The higher education sector has different economic characteristics to manufacturing”
“Agricultural output is characterised by fluctuations due to weather”
“A well-known exchange is the London Stock Exchange, where companies obtain a listing for newly issued equities (eg UK company shares) and where those shares are subsequently traded.”

No wonder they want the American deal to be secret if this is the crap they write.

I don't understand the desire for blue passports. I'm in my forties and have never had a blue passport. To me British passports are burgundy. I mean they could be any old colour really, they are a means to an end not a fashion statement.

Honestly, if an 11 year old handed in a homework with tripe like the sector analysis statements, they would probably get a detention for not putting in sufficient effort.

The food chain is a serious issue - we haven't been able to feed ourselves for a couple of centuries now, so heaven knows what they expect, when/if we leave the EU. I suppose they still expect to pull a last minute unicorns deal out of the hat.

I'll be glad to get rid of those tatty EU passports. Can't wait for the blue ones.

You do realise, VivienneMary, that the new ones will be made of precisely the same materials as the old, it's just that the cover will be a different colour? Also that we have always been entirely free to choose whatever colour we wanted for our passports? Check out the colour of the Croatian passport if you don't believe me.

Merry Xmas!

My Dutch made burgundy passport is anything but tatty. It's predecessor went all over the world and remained immaculate. Quality printing from a sensible country.

And fuck me my phone did a rogue apostrophe. Its, you bugger. Sans punctuation.

As has already been pointed out, the Irish ones are much more robust - thicker paper is used. There really isn't 'an EU passport'.

But hey, printed in France or Germany? Don't we have printing presses in the UK? What was that about 'taking back control'?

I have my dads old blue passport, it was well used and looks a bit scruffy. There is no way the new passports will look like it anyway. It has a stuck in photo and handwritten details. They will be like the current ones but blue.

Wiki says the blue passports only dated from the 20s anyway and were replaced as we needed machine readable ones. Who knew improving the security of our borders would be so unpopular.