Westministenders: Rebel Rebel Your Brexit is a Mess.

[RedToothBrush]

Hot Tramp, I love you so!

The European Parliament have agreed to progress talks to the next stage. Despite Brexiteers saying its not legally binding, it is apparent that the EU certainly disagree.

Not only that, but the wording of the deal goes further. It binds us to not being able to agree and new trade deals for 2 years.

The All Important Amendment 7 to the Great Repel Bill has been successful. May’s power grab has a set back.

By just FOUR votes the government was defeated. How May will be regretting that pointless election tonight.

Parliament will have a meaningful vote on the exit terms.

But don’t be too excited. Brussels might not like this as May can not guarantee the UK will agree to a deal. It means the the EU are negotiating with parliament NOT May now.

There is also the suggestion that the mood of parliament is changing and is beginning to lean more towards a EFTA / EEA type deal.

But equally this could also send us to the brink with a deal from the EU that could be rejected by parliament.

The stakes just got higher.

Wrote to my Tory MP months ago asking 'exactly who, if anyone, will benefit from Brexit?'

Finally got an answer with a few, mainly refutable, reasons. One was making our own laws...like improving animal welfare, e.g. banning export of live animals for slaughter.

Do any of you experts know anything about this? I don't.
Does the EU allow export of live animals for slaughter? Is this an area where the UK was unable to make its own laws, and has been itching to for ages?

Or is this MP hoping I'm an animal lover and this reason will appeal to me?

I don't know about animal welfare laws, but I would have thought that if we feel strongly about it, this would be where taking a full part in the EU would be beneficial. We could campaign to ban animal movements, unless under certain conditions, throughout the EU. I don't for one moment think that French cattle are less sentient that British ones. I am not sure whether the Tories think animals are sentient or not.

I did hear a programme on the radio a year or so back about the EU and slaughterhouses. Once again the EU got blamed for Westminster's policies. I think it was on Radio 4 if anyone has time to track it down, which I don't right now.

Interesting stuff about animal export laws here
researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8031

If there had any concern for animal welfare, the government wouldn't have rejected the amendment to include animal sentience in the withdrawal bill.

Neither would they have been prepared to revisit fox hunting a mere 10 years after the vote to ban it.

If there was any concern about animal welfare, Gove ( who has already strangled our children's education) would not have been put in charge of the department that mostly deals with such matters.

Does the EU allow export of live animals for slaughter?

Yes - in particular the Middle East markets are important.

Is this an area where the UK was unable to make its own laws, and has been itching to for ages?

Yes - although EU regs cover transport conditions for livestock within the UK, once outwith the EU there is in practice little regulation.

But - if the UK ends up on WTO terms there is the fear that live animal exports may increase rather than decrease.

theecologist.org/2017/sep/12/will-brexit-spell-end-live-animal-exports

It is just about the only plus point I’ve found for leaving the EU.

Quite lonely. I can see why animal rights campaigners hate the export laws but it doesn't follow that a Conservative government will ban live export once we leave.

Oops - that should be:

although EU regs cover transport conditions for livestock within the EU, once outwith ...

I highly doubt this government are interested in improving welfare standards. Unless improving them doesn't mean improving them for the animals.

Faisal Islam
Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
NEW: Chancellor Hammond in China asked by our @katstallard whether investors should now expect a transition where UK is still participating in Single Market, customs union, subject to ECJ...
“In a word, yes...”

www.worldhorsewelfare.org/Live-transportation

World Horse Welfare is campaigning, with others, to change horse transport policy in the EU. So horses transported for food are slaughtered at source, not across the continent having endured horrendous 'difficult' transit.

www.worldhorsewelfare.org/Live-Export-from-the-UK

Sadly UK authorities are not enforcing UK regs to stop the transport of horses for food to the continent. Supposed to be slaughtered in this country before being exported.

Bit about puppy trafficking and UK / EU attitudes to animal welfare.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42268326

"The Conservative government of 1992 sought to restrict live exports and refuse licenses to export sheep to Spain, but the decision was overturned by the European Court of Justice on the grounds that it would breach EU rules on the freedom of goods."

www.farminguk.com/News/Bill-to-ban-live-export-of-animals-for-slaughter-p-_47742.html

Current state of play including comment on Theresa Villier's Bill.

Now I am a big supporter of animal welfare, would happily go vegetarian if it wasn't for my crazy medical dietary issues that mean it was just be too restrictive. I do however, struggle to 1) believe that a party that wants to have another vote to push through the reintroduction of fox-hunting is doing all this for the sake of the furry beasties, and 2) this is really enough reason to put up with all the bad sides to Brexit when we could stay in the EU and fight for better welfare standards. Finally 3) all these new markets we are about to sign amazing trade deals with such as the US, China, Middle East are not areas known for their animal welfare standards.

This is a flipping strawman in the shape of a cute, big eyed baby moo cow and should be treated as such.

Interesting article on Big Data, Trump and Cambridge Analytica:

motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/mg9vvn/how-our-likes-helped-trump-win?utm_campaign=sharebutton

Thanks everybody for all your links and info re live animal exports. I'm in a better position to reply to my MP now.

This link from Agnes was interesting. It seems likely that under WTO rules, live animal transport would certainly not decrease.

As a member of the WTO, it's as likely — if not more likely — that live animal exports will increase rather than decrease. The WTO governs the conditions, rules, and regulation of trade between countries and governments. There are currently no grounds to restrict trade, as a member of the WTO, based on animal welfare objections. Much like the EU's Single Market, WTO membership enshrines the principles of free movement of trade — including, perversely, live animals. Any attempts to erect barriers to trade can be swept aside by the WTO. It is the WTO that stops the EU from banning the import of eggs from barren battery cages, despite the cruel farming practice being banned across the European Union.

It goes on to say that the EU have improved on-farm conditions for animals and we shouldn't lose those protections.

I'm not persuaded that our Govt would be able to, or want to, improve conditions.

theecologist.org/2017/sep/12/will-brexit-spell-end-live-animal-exports

This is a flipping strawman in the shape of a cute, big eyed baby moo cow and should be treated as such.
Brilliant bigly

This interview in today's Guardian with Tony Blair is very good - Decca Aitkenhead is an excellent interviewer though. This bit stood out:

Instead of telling leave voters they were wrong, I suggest, Labour could now have an opportunity to capitalise on Jeremy Corbyn’s own well-documented ambivalence towards Europe. Were Corbyn to say to the country: “I shared many of your misgivings. But having seen the harsh reality of what Brexit really looks like, I’m now convinced we shouldn’t do it,” would that convey both humility as well as leadership? Blair looks surprised, and pauses to consider this. “Yes. I think that’s a really good idea. I think that would be actually quite powerful. I agree, if Jeremy Corbyn was to say, ‘Look, I’ve always been sceptical about Europe, but I’ve now looked at this …’ Yes, that would be powerful.” He pauses again. “But you’ve got to want to do it.”

What does he mean? “You’ve got to want people to change their minds. I may be wrong about this, but I think there are elements of the Labour leadership who think that doing Brexit increases their possibility of winning power.” Does he mean they have calculated that it’s a strategic price worth paying for office? “Yes.”

www.facebook.com/100007537546107/videos/1955779668016599/

If anyone's having a cloudy Saturday, please watch that link above, it's a bit of a cheerer upper.

Any FTA with the US must include allowing in their highly industrialised farming / agricultural products & meat
Otherwise, they will refuse to deal.

That is the political reality of their hugely powerful agribusiness lobby, that can bring the hammer down in Congres

US industrial farmers try to compensate for lower animal welfare standards - which lead to less healthy animals & meat - by adding chlorine washes, more antibiotics etc to reduce risk to the consumer

Uk farmers will drop standard to compete, or will go under.
Many will do the first, then the second

Ticktock

http://m.atwonline.com/blog/time-fast-running-out-prevent-brexit-aviation-crisis

With every ticking minute towards the day when the UK exits the EU,
anxiety is growing among those in the airline industry about when replacement agreements will be secured to ensure uninterrupted commercial air traffic in and out of the UK
…
“Here it is in black and white from the EU Commission—UK flights to the EU will be grounded in March 2019 should no agreement be reached,”
UK pilots union BALPA general secretary Brian Strutton commented.
“We need the UK government to sort air traffic rights now … no deal is not an option.”

IATA director general and CEO Alexandre de Juniac warned that if the UK fails to establish traffic rights for airlines before it leaves the EU, it would be “a disaster.”

Don't think it's been mentioned on this thread but apparently Davis left the first round of negotiations early to meet with Paul Dacre

politicalscrapbook.net/2017/12/david-davis-went-for-dinner-with-daily-mail-editor-after-bailing-early-on-first-round-of-brexit-talks/

Oho, that reminds us how DD runs when his master whistles

If Dacre wants to swap puppets before March, then he might instruct the CPP to install DD as our new PM

I'm more shocked than usual about the Davis/Dacre assignation.
I know politicians do meet press editors. But to leave a Brexit meeting early to do so...
WTF! This is the most important negotiation for this country in decades. He is totally negligent.

And actually, WHY should politicians meet with the press? Why? It's shameful.