Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

lala It's unbelievable that we can believe they just haven't done the assessments. Fucking hell. Cringeworthy doesn't begin to cover it.

I wish I could say I was astonished, but I'm not really, because we've been saying it on these threads for ages. So mainly I'm feeling sick, and angry .

Everyday fascism lala

Larry the Cat has tweeted that he would like the impact assessments for his litter tray. He says DD is not the only one who is full of s**t.
🙀

Alex Andreou‏
@sturdyAlex
David Davis just told Brexit Committee it would take 10-50 years of civil service time to do #Brexit impact assessments and ALSO SAID the gov't plans to do this work "in due course".

I want to laugh, but we put this man in charge of the most critical negotiation in generations.

It hasn't taken the EU that long. Maybe we should ask them.

In due course

What the fuck is the point of doing impact assessments after you have done the thing you are assessing! Aarrrgghhh!

This thread called it long ago iirc

It's morbidly fascinating now

Arlene Foster wants a place at the Brexit negotiation table

DUP Arlene Foster was due to ask Theresa May if her party can have a seat at the Brexit negotiations.

Foster was likely to raise that prospect with the prime minister today. Ahead of her phone call to May, the former first minister of Northern Ireland said:

"There is a need for us to be directly involved."

^ From The Guardian's live coverage

The DUP have decided to take over the negotiations since they seem to be making all the decisions anyway. Might as well cut out the middleman and stick Foster in number 10

I'm idly weighing up if she could be any worse than DD...

I know it's been detailed on this thread but a summary of the sector analyses for anyone who wants a reminder

jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-early-history-of-the-58-brexit-sector-analyses/

Some other things of note:

David Hall‏
@dochall
Anybody asking what the basis of the Nissan promise letter if we’d done no impact assessment? It really was a blank cheque written by HMG.

Also

Matthew Holehouse‏
@mattholehouse
The key point is these "impact assessments" were used as a shield for a year to tell business all their concerns and needs were being listened to and entered into the Brexit masterplan.

Also

Adam Bienkov‏
@AdamBienkov
David Davis says the government hasn't produced a single economic impact assessment on Brexit as he's "not a fan" of them.

Also

Jim Pickard‏
@PickardJE
David Davis says this may be "indelicate" and could "get me into trouble" as he discloses that he put in a request for Keir Starmer to join the privy council.

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
What this means is that Davis wants to give Starmer "confidential" information about Brexit. Starmer would likely refuse because having that information would tie his hands.

Jim Pickard‏
@PickardJE
Nope: he accepted www.gov.uk/government/news/privy-council-appointment-keir-starmer

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
Thanks - so as @MayfairCynic has suggested he instead just refuses the information... I guess.

If one is trying to be constructive in these nightmarish times : Foster saying she wants a seat at the Brexit negotiating table is actually an argument for a proper federal structure in the UK. All the countries (and provinces ) within the UK should have a real seat at the Brexit negotiations. (Although in NI's case, given that the NI Assembly is currently suspended, then that role would have to be undertaken by Brokenshire might give Foster an incentive to get the Assembly back up and running ).

What shouldn't be acceptable is for one party to have a disproportionate voice (example: the DUP) or to be ignored (example: the SNP) just because they are or aren't need to maintain the Government in power at Westminster

Some one, I can't remember who, mentioned that they felt Starmer was being compromised.

DUP is a smoke screen for the real players, I think.

Being on the Privy Council, and being in the Privy Council are not the
same thing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privy_Council_of_the_United_Kingdom

Curiously enough, a few weeks ago someone on another Brexit debate I followed posted that link, with suggestion it was important ?

Interesting development re. Keir Starmer.

Brexit's like our own advent calendar of shitness, isn't it? Forget the House of Fraser/Zoella awfulness (though I love the HoF thread in S and B at the moment) - every day another horrible surprise.

So, just to be very, very clear:

Many businesses and sectors have done their own impact assessments. They have presented these to the government.

Not only has the government not done impact assessments, they have failed to take account of the impact assessments tendered to them.

And yes, the whole "We're listening. We're taking your concerns into account" is now revealed as utter nonsense.

And this is why businesses have been so unreassured they have gone public - or in the case of Goldman Sachs, very publicly opened up HQs outside the UK.

If anyone were in any doubt as to the impact of Brexit, this, I think, tells you all you need to know.

People on another thread are saying: "Politicians!" but I think we need to be very clear about this. This goes beyond anything we have encountered in UK politics. It is utterly negligent; utterly incompetent. It is the opposite of 'governing'.

DD: Liar, liar, pants on fire !

New Statesman:

in June this year, the Secretary of State said on the Marr Show
that “we’ve got 50, nearly 60 sector analyses done”.

His department confirmed in September in response to my freedom of information request that the studies were completed.

In October, the Secretary of State not only confirmed they had been completed,
but that they were in “excruciating detail”
and that the Prime Minister had seen the summaries.

David Lammy:
“At what point is David Davis going to be held to account for such blatant lying?
“He must surely now resign
He simply can not be allowed to go around lying to Parliament and the British public in this way.
Mendacious, conceited, vain, duplicitous, wholly unfit for office.”

Interesting theory

Jo Maugham QC
@JolyonMaugham
I bet they do exist, in some form or other.

I bet Davis has decided he'd rather take heat for misleading Parliament and the public than come clean about what Government knows Brexit means.

Tinfoil hat ON

...skimming through the internet (even here on MN), I think we're unveiling some deficiencies in the bot-driven-event masterplan.

It seems to have worked to tip this country into voting for Brexit. Job done.

But it doesn't seem to be able to continue and deliver the ongoing pressure needed to push the event through.

So like a solid fuel rocket booster. It got Brexit into orbit. But it now can't deliver the force to leave orbit.

Which is why things are slipping back, and the saner voices are being heard.

Hopefully the take home message for the future is that it's much harder to swing and maintain a public shift than might have been though previously.

Also I suspect a lot of botmasters have had to move on to spout fake bollocks on other world events. Like any resource, it seems Russian bots are limited and have to be targeted.

Tinfoil hat OFF

I don't think that tinfoil hat territory at all, LurkingDad. The referendum required a lot of money, complicated transactions, targeted resources - and most of all, it required a foreshortened amount of time, in which Big Lies could be thrown around, without the necessary time to counteract them.

I figure it's hard to do that sort of thing over a medium to long term. Very, very expensive, for a start.

And there are other fronts (Hello, America) on which to fight, too.

I really like your rocket fuel analogy. That works very well.

HOW is labour not mopping up the vomitous mess that is the Tory party??
HOW!!??

If it wasn't for the fact that I hate people (but love gatherings, isn't it ironic ?) I'd have liked getting into teaching. There's very little that can't be explained with a good analogy.

For example, you feed a large pachyderm - maybe an elephant or rhino - with a lot of things it can't digest over a period of a few weeks. Everyone tells you not to do it, but you have the strength of your convictions over mere facts. So you do it anyway.

Then, one day, the beast in question has an unstoppable fit of the shits, and sprays everything with shit, just like you were warned.

(TMWE - Modern history voice)

That's Brexit, that is.

Robert Peston‏ @Peston
What would upset you more - that the government won't publish formal studies of the economic and industrial impact of Brexit or that it hasn't carried out formal studies of the economic and industrial impact of Brexit?

Jamie Ross‏*@JamieRoss7*
The SNP is going to raise a point of order immediately after PMQs suggesting David Davis is in contempt of parliament.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/david-davis-just-admitted-there-are-no-brexit-impact?utm_term=.ov9pVOAl17#.jlz9qJrjpQ
David Davis Just Said There Are No Brexit Impact Assessments And Now He's Been Accused Of Contempt Of Parliament