Westministenders: The Art of the Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Well Trump seems to have put his foot in it.

Not that this should come as a surprise. For all the talk of closer ties with the US that was never going to happen. All that was need was for Trump to over step once too many.

By chance (?) Barnier also raised questions about our commitment to working with the EU on security.

Its almost as if we are being asked to choose whom we look to for security.

Meanwhile it sounds like the divorce bill is sorted - though this may not be as settled as that, if it comes with conditions. The deal might also be backtracked on, seeing as that appears to be the done thing presently.

Talks on Ireland are stalemated with Ireland threating to veto. No sign of a breakthrough here yet.

Talks on EU citz rights are reportedly going backwards (again) rather than going forward.

All of this is theatre for a British audience though, with the UK agreeing to everything. Because they gave again their cards when a50 was triggered.

The crunch is coming on whether we move to stage two before Christmas. We have no time to lose.

Brexit Secretary David Davis has told MPs the issue of maintaining "a frictionless border between the UK and Ireland" will be dealt with in the next phase of negotiations

And the EU agrees ?

I thought the border has to be sorted before "the next phase of negotiations" ?

Yes, some of them are religious fundamentalists and many are very right wing, but extremists? How? Yes, they diverge from the rest of the UK on abortion and equal marriage rights, but those issues are devolved and do not impact on the maintenance of the Union itself (there's not a lot of evidence that their views are very out of touch with majority opinion in NI either). They do speak as the largest party in NI, just as the Tories (sadly) do, despite the fact that MPs represent both Brexit and Remain constituencies. Unlike most political parties, the DUP really do do what they say they will. They are neither subtle nor mysterious, just operating within the context of a political system which has been created to contain violence and paper over huge issues and which subsequently lurches from crisis to crisis. Shifting demographics don't help. Neither does the piss poor understanding of NI politics in London. Yesterday was a case in point.

DD is a little hard of understanding isnt he?

Yes LH. It was one of the three to be dealt with before moving on. Agreed by the British gov't. And yet DD has repeatedly stated it will be dealt with after they have moved on. He is the head of the Brexit dep't and is ignoring what they agreed. What can a body say?

Yes LH. It was one of the three to be dealt with before moving on.

I suspect DDs response isn't intended for us plebians. It's just to give the Tories the warm glow they need. Probably similar to the warm glow I used to get when DS managed to wee all over me ?

My god, the incompetence of this government is staggering. I keep thinking that they must know things that we don't, and must have ideas ready to unveil at the right moment. But no, it looks as though they really have nothing more than the nothingness we can see.

You are right Cailleach all geography has a policital basis to it. My main issue was people misusing what is whether you agree with it nor not, a purely geographical term which means something specific as a political term. (Both the Scots and the Irish could stop using the term British for political reasons as it was a Roman term designed to describe the English and the Welsh but I think we may have bigger issues at hand)
There has also been a rather wearing backdrop of the only real Briton is an English person and this looks increasingly likely to become a self fullfilling prophecy. As someone with little time for nationalism of any kind I am depressed that I am losing my European identity and it is perfectly possible I will be asked to chose again between my Scottish and British identity, I wanted to have all three layers of identity. I feel I am being left with crumpets and spitfires at present.

I think that when Ireland declared Independence, it was despite Lloyd George, not with his agreement?

EU blacklist names 17 tax havens and puts Caymans and Jersey on notice

Brussels identifies 17 states including South Korea, Barbados, Panama and UAE with 47 others such as the Isle of Man and Bermuda warned

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/05/eu-blacklist-names-17-tax-havens-and-puts-caymans-and-jersey-on-notice?CMP=twt_gu

Recollect too that at the time of the Hunger strikes in the Maze prison, Tory rhetoric at their Conference that year was that they weren't going to give in to the strikers demands. This was for public consumption. Three days later, they did.

Interestingly, in Irish the only people traditionally called 'British' are the Welsh. I suppose an on the spot development of distinctions as waves of people occupied the next door island.

Wales is 'little Britain', An Bhreatain bheag. Welsh/Walsh is a common anglicised surname in Ireland from Bhreathnach. The English are Sasanach or Saxons. England being Sasana. The Scots are Albanach. From Alba.

Scotti was a roman term for Gaels. Yet strangely it was turned into an identifier for Lowlanders who weren't. They even spoke Béarla', the same language as the English.

Political terms have caught up with the traditional now and all British are called Bhreathnach. but it is really just the Welsh who are

What's in a name?

Recollect too that at the time of the Hunger strikes in the Maze prison, Tory rhetoric at their Conference that year was that they weren't going to give in to the strikers demands.

And Ted Heath was negotiating with Sinn Fein in the 70s, if I recall correctly ?

NI is a weird, murky dirty place, to my eyes. Anyone remember "Harrys Game" ?

Also the long running saga over the Stalker inquiry into shoot-to-kill ... which I remember reading about in Private Eye, with a subtext that Stalker had been "got at" by the Unionists.

Wales is 'little Britain', An Bhreatain bheag. Welsh/Walsh is a common anglicised surname in Ireland from Bhreathnach. The English are Sasanach or Saxons. England being Sasana. The Scots are Albanach. From Alba.

And Brittany was "Less Britain" (that's my Arthurian nerdiness kicking in).

(And "Saxon" came from "Seax". Or so the Saxon horde in Birmingham Museum proclaims).

John Stalker was an amazing person. I remember reading his book. He had every bank record etc. going back aeons. They couldn't destroy him so easily as he was so organised. I did take away there was a campaign to destroy him. But awe for so organised person remains with me to this day.

I think identity and therefore emotional responses get caught up in names. Much as I dislike Arlene Foster I understand she would describe herself as British and should be recognized as being so. The politics of NI are horribly complicated but I cannot think giving people names and therefore identities they haven't chosen is going to help sort out Brexit.

Interesting about the Welsh/British as I understand it is similar in Gaelic, I have almost none so am relying on what my df has said in the past.

@DanielBoffey
EU official on DD's suggestion that whole of UK will align with EU regs. "The UK will not have any say on the decisions taken in Brussels and will basically implement them without having any influence over them... it makes the UK kind of a regulatory 'protectorate" of Brussels'".

Ed Millibands not holding back. From the evening standard article.

On Twitter, his predecessor Ed Miliband said: “What an absolutely ludicrous, incompetent, absurd, make it up as you go along, couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery bunch of jokers there are running the government at the most critical time in a generation for the country

I think the government have opened a can of worms with the regulatory alignment. Lots of MPs saying why not just have this for whole of UK, and if you're going to have this then why not single market and customs union. It won't take long till that becomes well why not stay in the EU. I think a 'we can't leave the EU because we don't want to jeopardize either the peace process or the union' could work if anyone was looking for a get out of jail free card.

I think a 'we can't leave the EU because we don't want to jeopardize either the peace process or the union' could work if anyone was looking for a get out of jail free card.

I would like to think so, but with the current bunch of clowns running the country, I don't think they would get out of jail if the bars were sawn off and the doors were unlocked.

It's hard to disagree with him hollie !

Interestingly, in Irish the only people traditionally called 'British' are the Welsh.

This was true in English as well. It was only after the Act of Union that the term British gradually became co-opted to describe the entire population of Great Britain rather than just the Celtic part.

Ed Milliband

is an interesting guest on along with his podcast partner.

Note that despite being a Remainer, he feels we need to leave. Also note his suggestion that being a politician somehow does (but shouldn't) rob you of your empathy.

I notice there's a chattering backlash (or is it botlash ?) saying that "just because Brexit is proving hard, is no reason to abandon it".

At this point, there needs to be a push from Remainers to point out that Brexit would have been entirely possible, if the Brexiteers hadn't been so confused and underhand about it to start with.

Hang on a moment. Dd is saying that if there's a deal for ni it will be a deal for the UK. He's saying that was from the Florence dictat. So did TM essentially rule out no deal brexit, if we cant talk trade we want to take the offer of EEA or efta? If so was that without realising or hoping that Labour will back her?

Hang on a moment. Dd is saying that if there's a deal for ni it will be a deal for the UK. He's saying that was from the Florence dictat. So did TM essentially rule out no deal brexit, if we cant talk trade we want to take the offer of EEA or efta? If so was that without realising or hoping that Labour will back her?

Dan Bloom
@danbloom1

NEW: Labour spokesman on what Labour's Brexit policy is, after Keir Starmer said the option of the single market should be "put back on the table for negotiation". Attempt to interpret at your leisure.