Westminsterenders: The Ersatz ImitationThread

[OlennasWimple]

I am no RedToothBrush, so I'm not going to try to emulate her exception OP style.

Here, though, in the interests of carrying on our conversations about WTF is going on with Brexit and the weird political world we find ourselves in right now, is a sort of continuation thread

(Hurry back Red, we need you!)

Hashi
I am doing the same with DCs though they are young too. it will be an international passport for them really even if we somehow fail to leave if Brexit goes through.

Dear all, this is me saying au revoir - I am off on holiday in the wilds of the West country, no WiFi, no mobile signal, for a whole fortnight. I promise to do my catch up reading of the Westminstenders threads on my return and of course I will faithfully keep up with the news. Sort of.

Watching the marvellous Mo on the podium tonight, takes me back to the awesomeness of London 2012. Where did that go ?

I don't know if you've already seen this report - just tweeted by Guy V, about the EU "integrated military forces"
alde.eu/en/news/320-a-roadmap-towards-eu-integrated-military-forces/

Tweet:
twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/893455865222770688

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/04/uk-car-industry-facing-an-utterly-demoralising-brexit

"Since the decline of British-owned car companies in the 1980s, the UK automotive industry has been rebuilt by overseas manufacturers investing in operations based on frictionless integration of products and people with other European countries, and no tariffs or regulatory barriers.

SMMT’s most recent figures state that 814,000 people are employed in the UK industry, which in 2015 turned over £72bn and exported £34bn worth of products, with 56% of car exports and 65% of components going to EU countries.

Recently the SMMT announced that investment in the first six months of this year had reduced to just £322m, from a total of £1.66bn invested last year and £2.5bn in 2015."

Guy V is just an MEP. Like Farage . And Richard Corbett (who I hear people ask as he is certainly never on tv a fraction of the Kippers time). Or the vast majority of British MEP's. Suzanne Evans, why? And I do think Guy V uses twitter to wind people up.

wrongtrouser

I wonder if the people going on and on about a probable military force of EU have ever tried to see this from the perspective of the people who have been at the receiving end of western aggression in the last two decades.
Call me cynic but Just thinking if anyone in Iraq or Afghanistan would be that bothered about a bomb that comes from some allied EU army or the political and very physical NATO bombs.
Can this army be hired off to USA on demand? Like we keep doing for national security of course.

The UK armed forces seem to have become a minor subsidiary of the US armed forces many years ago.

As many Leavers keep reminding us, the EU armed forces are rather pacifist and apt to stop work for supper or vacations
At least the EU don't keep dragging us into endless wars for oil, don't recklessly spend the blood of service personnel to enrich vast US megacorporations

Leaver Richard North: "double coffin lid"

Why we can't return to the the "independent" UK status of pre-EEC days:
the world has moved on and the nation state is now constrained by a huge amount of international law

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=865599_

"... leaving the EU will not bring them the relief they expect.

The emergence of the new world order since the end of the last major global conflict in 1945 has elevated international law to a status where true sovereignty, in the traditional sense, no longer exists.

In all respects, it is superior to domestic law and, where conflict exists, domestic law must be altered to conform with international norms.

Ending the writ of the EU treaties, therefore, will create what I have termed the "double coffin-lid" scenario,
where I envisage a scene in a horror movie where a man finds himself (for reasons we need not explore) locked inside a coffin.

By prodigious effort, he manages to break through the lid of the coffin only then to find that there is a second lid, preventing his escape.

So it is with the EU treaties.
Once we break out, what we will find in our relations with the European Union and its Member States is that we are then bound by international law, which in many cases will take the place of and, in part, replicate provisions of the treaties."

Does that mean we can track the money trail somehow? May be having a army that's joined with EU would mean that there would be more regulations on attacking other countries (physically so near to Europe) based on a blatantly obvious lie?

A macabre consequence of global warming:

The unprecedented melting of the Apls glaciers has been releasing frozen corpses of people who have been missing for decades

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/04/melting-glaciers-swiss-alps-could-reveal-hundreds-mummified-corpses

but since global warming is apparently just a con, those corpses must all be fakes, created by the global elite

By prodigious effort, he manages to break through the lid of the coffin only then to find that there is a second lid, preventing his escape.

I really don't understand why, given all he knows / discusses in his blog, Richard North still supports Brexit. If the above is the case, isn't it better to Remain?

Peregrina, I suspect you have it right wrt who is voting for Labour.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40819687
The DUP complained earlier this week of 'megaphone diplomacy' from Dublin.

...Sinn Féin MLA Conor Murphy said the taoiseach was "acting in the interests of the people of Ireland when he makes these remarks and these approaches to the European Union".

"If they (the DUP) want to see a new arrangement which effectively is the same as the old, why leave the European Union?" Mr Murphy continued.

"We have to ensure that our interests are up there. The fact that we are Irish citizens and European citizens and we have rights to be protected, needs to be front and centre. And we look to the taoiseach to defend our interests."

On Thursday, former taoiseach (sic) John Bruton, who was also a former leader of Mr Varadkar's Fine Gael party, said that the DUP is in a position to answer questions over Brexit because of its Westminster pact with the Conservative Party.

"Do they (the UK government) want to leave the customs union? Are they willing to accept being in the European Economic Area? What type of agriculture policy will the UK government pursue post-Brexit?

So the Taoiseach (Leo Varadkar, Ireland's first openly gay Taoiseach) visited Queens University Belfast, which has a majority RC student body www.newsletter.co.uk/news/education/about-50-per-cent-more-catholics-than-protestants-enter-higher-education-1-7167390 and plans to make an appearance at a NI Pride breakfast.

The megaphone volume has thus been turned up.
www.newsletter.co.uk/news/varadkar-attendance-at-belfast-gay-pride-event-totally-inappropriate-1-8083252 Varadkar has really pissed off the DUP. He has nothing to lose.

FWIW, the (Belfast) News Letter is a pro Unionist publication. (The Belfast telegraph tends to be nationalist). Note lower case t in Taoiseach.

The DUP seem to have taken over on British media as the voice of NI. Unchallenged (and minority now) prejudices viewpoint/'analysis' taken as gospel in interviews as well. Although out of kilter with the vote there to remain in the EU. And many, many more things. Stormont small fish when DUP now rule from Westminster. Must feel like the old days for them. Holding back the tide. The majority of people on the island of Ireland (both political parts) are pro EU. No vote in Ireland itself, but it would be slam dunk. Mores so after UK referendum.

Bizarre to see BBC report live from Westminster.. reporting about Varadkar's speech from Queens. Nothing to report from their own gov't. Nothing. Varadkar asking for some UK proposals. Cons said it would be easy, so now show what easy looks like. There is absolutely nothing from the Cons. Just the usual bullshit.

Cannot believe the gov't didn't step in and relieve K and C of responsibility wrt Grenfell. Independent committee should have been set up to deal with the survivors. Council is conflicted. They could be under police investigation and face criminal charges. There were resignations. Nearly 2 months on it is a shamble for those people. They are still in hotels and on tv interview say they find it hard to contact the council. Interviewee yesterday said that other councils and charities have been more helpful to them.

I think the Cons want to turn the UK into the US. You want to access something, you pay for it. Tough if you can't. Health has been in their sights for a while.

I never knew that until you start earning enough to pay off your student loan, the interest is still accruing. I wonder if it is cheaper for the state to just pay for education. Will private insurance companies make the profit from the student loans in the long run. I presume the state pays if the loan is not paid back. With the interest accrued. Like the NHS now. Involvement of private profit. And headlines like the NHS needs to get it's house in order before it gets more money. Maybe if it wasn't paying back huge profits to PFIs. Or the private interests which are getting their feet under that table and making profits. It is ideological. Probably will cost the taxpayer more in the end.

I wonder how many British citizens who are also Irish citizens by descent who once voted Conservative will now not do so? I never voted Conservative but many of my family did. I don't think they will do so again...and there are a lot of voters like us.

Elements I was sobbing watching Mo. I watched him win the 5kM in 2012 on a giant screen by Tower Bridge. The moment he crossed the line was one of the most amazing of my line. Total strangers were hugging each other, there were people waving flags from dozens of countries from every continent. I felt so proud of my country and so proud of London. I've said this before but one of the things I love about London is that Londoners don't just 'tolerate' those from other countries and cultures- they welcome them with open arms. 2012 feels like it belongs to a completely different era, it's hard to believe it was only 5 years ago. That moment was the most powerful feeling I've had of people coming together. The contrast to now couldn't be more stark.
There are people in my family who would have argued against Mo Farah being allowed into this country.
I imagine future generations learning about Brexit and thinking 'What the hell were they thinking?'
It's just so fucking depressing.

I wonder when / if a NI unionist party will reflect the views of younger unionists.
Or will unionism become like the Conservatives, the refuge of the over-45s ?

The extreme social conservatives - funded by the US - that have a stranglehold on unionist parties have turned off many Protestant unionists aged under 40 from voting in local elections.

This age group of unionists heavily support equal marriage and a small majority even overturning the abortion ban.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-studyy_

atm, they would turn out solidly to stay in the UK in a Referendum, but how long will that continue, as the RoI becomes more attractive and open

Demographics are not on the side of unionism, so they need every vote they can get:
atm in NI, the 18-20 age group is 48.5% Catholic, and 43.3% Protestant

Part of the deal with Arlene was that the HoC boundary changes would be abandoned - because they would have given Sinn Fein more seats than the DUP.

I fear a reversion to the serious gerrymandering that was one of the main causes of the Troubles

(paywall) ‘Aggressive’ Tory whips demand that aides spy on their ministers

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/aggressive-tory-whips-demand-that-aides-spy-on-their-ministers-zrvw5k0cd
....
The summonses for newly promoted Tories elevated to the first rung of the Westminster career ladder came a few days after their appointment.
.....
The 40-odd MPs were told that one of their key duties was to be leadership spies, rooting out rivals to Theresa May and reporting back.

< our democracy in action, not the USSR, in case you are confused >

Julian Smith, the deputy chief whip, asked them to put up their hand if they had attended a dinner hosted the night before by Rory Stewart, a minister suspected of leadership ambitions.

At least one MP confessed and Mr Smith made clear that information about such meetings was precisely the kind of nugget the whips team expected to be told.

“A lot of us were shocked at the aggression,” one MP said. “The message in no uncertain terms was,
‘You work for us, you don’t work for your ministers, remember that at all times.
And your job is to tell us what’s going on about everything.’ ”

< I thought MPs worked for their constituents (naive) >

Looking to improve Mrs May’s performance — and waning Tory morale — at prime minister’s questions after the election, Mr Williamson took over her preparation team.

To sharpen up the prep group, which comprises about 30 loyal MPs who meet on a Monday to feed in intelligence about the questions the prime minister might be asked,
he rebranded it from the “Q team”, short for questions team, to the “K team”, or kill team.

He is also credited with upping the prize for Tory MPs who receive a “bollocking by Bercow” during PMQs for heckling the opposition,
from a badge to a bottle of champagne.
< Tory MPs actually get prizes for being rude twats ? >

One Tory MP complained that the “slips” system, by which parliamentarians are given permission to be away from parliament from Monday to Thursday, had been tightened significantly since the election.
“Being out for children’s sports days or nativity plays is now out. Only a family illness seems to qualify,”
< so, the idea of a more family-friendly HoC has been hit on the head >

Kate Hoeys @ katehoeymp
Irish PM asks 'who speaks for Northern Ireland.'?He should know that as the Leader of a neighbouring country he doesn't #LeaveEU

Who would like to start on this.

coughs good Friday agreement coughs

I like Guy V BECAUSE he is a windup merchant if I'm honest.

I used to like have some respect for Kate Hoey many many years ago.

Now she repeatedly demonstrates how ignorant (in the true sense of the word) and blinkered she is.