Westministenders: Transition

[RedToothBrush]

Last thread opener, it was all about the government buzz word being shown to listen at every opportunity.

Now transition is creeping in as people realise that no we can't just do a settlement, arrange a new trade deal with the EU and have a whole host of other deals in place in two years.

Who'd have thought.

We will be getting Brexit because we give in to threats of terrorism. Not quite getting how that takes back control.

But Brexit will be good. It will be glorious. And in the long term we will be better off for it.

Er ok.

[SwedishEdith]

www.ft.com/content/f8658320-661d-11e7-9a66-93fb352ba1fe

'The fatal divide for business in Brexit Britain

The debacle stems from an intellectual elite’s ignorance of industry and science'

Although I agree with the thrust of this article, I cannot agree that the key Brexiteers are "intellectuals". Educated, yes, but sophisticated thinkers with developed ideas? And Dominic Cummings going nuts over Euratom brings into question his "brains of the Vote Leave campaign" image.

"The UK government’s plan to pull out of Euratom, the oversight body for the nuclear industry in Europe, set off an explosion this week. “Government MORONS say they’re withdrawing from Euratom. Near-retarded on every dimension,” tweeted Dominic Cummings, the brains of the Vote Leave campaign."

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
Nicky Morgan defeated JAcob Rees Mogg by 290 to 226 votes in election for the powerful Treasury Select Committee

[PattyPenguin]

How is Dominic Cummings only getting exercised about Euratom now? It was on page 4 of the explanatory notes to the Bill. And this from Hansard, from the debate on the Bill on 31st January - DD speaking:
"I draw hon. Members’ attention to the explanatory notes to the Bill, which set out the application of the Bill to Euratom. The Bill also gives the Prime Minister the power to start the process to leave Euratom. The Bill makes it clear that in invoking article 50, we will be leaving Euratom, the agency established by treaty to ensure co-operation on nuclear matters, as well as leaving the European Union. This is because, although Euratom was established in a treaty separate from the EU agreements and treaties, it uses the same institutions as the European Union, including the European Court of Justice. The European Union (Amendment) Act 2008 makes it clear that in UK law membership of the European Union includes Euratom. That is why article 50 applies to both the European Union and to Euratom."

[SwedishEdith]

This was very good on Newsnight last night. Quite painful but, well, mostly self-inflicted.

[HashiAsLarry]

^Damian Green in HoC:
“We are saying that it is conceivable that we would be offered a punishment deal hmm that would be worse than no deal”^

Yeah, well it's also conceivable that this Nigerian prince who keeps emailing me is gonna drop millions into my bank account shortly.

[OlennasWimple]

Does anyone else suffer from images of Noel Edmonds brandishing red boxes when politicians start going on about whether no deal is better a bad deal?

Maybe we should simplify this whole thing, put DD in front of a load of boxes with various deal options in them (I'm sure we could come up with 22 easily enough), May can sit in the audience and watch while Barnier asks "Deal or No Deal?"

Who would play the role of the banker, though? Merkel? Juncker, perhaps?

[HashiAsLarry]

Hahaha olennas
The biggest issue I have with this is my mind has instantly hit on who plays Noel - Trump of course

[RedToothBrush]

I read this
How is Dominic Cummings only getting exercised
As

How is Dominic Cummings only getting exorcised

I need to lie down again

[Valentine2]

Ha ha. Oh well. Makes sense in this twisted universe anyway.
Get well soon.

[lalalonglegs]

.

[Valentine2]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/labour-tories-great-repeal-bill-brexit-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Lazybastet]

I hope you feel better soon Red.

Just wanted to say thanks again for this thread and to Lurking Husband for your theory on how Brexit can be reversed - I think the seeds of this are starting personally.

However, I'm utterly confused by the current play. One question - what is Corbyn's position on Brexit? My understanding is that in theory he is for it however he would wish to protect workers/economy first.

As protection means a reversal, does this mean that in practice he may well wish for reversal hence his general neutrality on the subject?

I hope that makes sense

[MangoSplit]

Place marking

[Lazybastet]

One other thing, I'm trying and failing to find a bullet point synopsis of where we are?

I see May needs to put forward a repel bill, that may/not be rejected by HoL. That the EU have given us a 5 day deadline to respond to citizens rights, that the next negiotiation will focus on our financial obligations.

I understand that German industry leaders have stated EU comes before U.K. trade, politicians have realised that EUROTROM needs to be protected, Ireland/DUP seems to have gone quiet?

Is the above correct? Just trying to get a feel for what is in the table.

Oh and I understand that BJ is an antagonistic arsehole. I know that bit's correct. Loved Barnier's retort

[HashiAsLarry]

I've been shouting at the TV again. Talking about the repeal bill and that Opposition would be looking to make sure it didn't go through easily.

YES, THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB.

Its what makes for robust laws.

[BiglyBadgers]

So labour are planning on voting against the Repeal bill, unless their are big changes. Interesting times indeed.

It does seem increasingly that labour are going for acting terribly reasonable and supportive while generally working to undermine the whole undertaking. They seem to be saying that they support the 'will of the people' but only if it has no negative consequences, which they know is impossible. This allows them to keep true to the referendum results while still pushing against brexit.

Its going to be interesting to see what Corbyn has to say after he meets with Barnier.

[HesterThrale]

So pro-EU MP Nicky Morgan has been voted in as chair of the Treasury Select Committee, beating Brexiteer JReesMogg by 290 votes to 226.
That has to be good. An indication of the the numbers of Remainers in the Commons maybe. (Also the first woman to hold this post.)

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/nicky-morgan-beats-jacob-rees-mogg-in-vote-to-chair-treasury-committee

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/0bef0b36-6732-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614

[BiglyBadgers]

YES, THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB.

True, but the other day everybody had convinced themselves labour were going to support it on mass based solely on a rather vague quote from someone in the house of lords. Cue lots of shouting about labour and Corbyn being hard brexiteers. So it's seems they do need to actually state clearly that they are not going to wave it through.

[Lazybastet]

See Bigly this is where I'm confused. Corbyn whipped the A50 vote, I've not seen his thoughts on the repeal bill but is that likely to happen again?

[BiglyBadgers]

At the time of the A50 vote, pre-election and all that I really can't see that Corbyn had any other option but to whip the A50 vote. He would have been decimated and widely condemned as going against the will of the people for doing anything else.

Also I do not believe Corbyn has become an ardent remainer. As I have said before I am of the option he is pretty agnostic on the whole subject. However, I think labour recognises that the damage to the economy, health service etc would make it very hard for them to follow through on their agenda. Tricky to tax corporations more if they have all left, for example. Hard to improve the NHS if we don't have any staff. With this view many probably would accept a soft brexit option to be honest, even though it would still cause damage.

Thirdly, if labour suddenly came out as being absolutely against brexit no matter what the deal what do you really think would actually happen? The Tories would be thrilled for starters as they could lay all blame for any issues at labours door as they would have declared themselves the enemy. I suspect it would also reduce the likelihood of Tories rebelling and voting against the government, which as the Tories do have a majority with the DUP would mean the key votes would still go through. Labour have to pursue a line that is most likely to allow Tories to rebel. I think being a bit more subtle about it is more likely to achieve this aim.

[prettybird]

Naga just gave Steve Baker, Undersecretary of State for Brexit a hard time on BBC Breakfast.

Asked if Boris saying the EU "could go whistle" was respectful and constructive, he tried to say, "Well Boris has a certain way of saying things..." but Naga cut across him saying, "But he is the Foreign Secretary: he represents this government and this country". He replied with some waffle about how the DfExEU is being constructive.

She also quoted the head of the National Audit Office warning that the government was at risk of "falling apart like a chocolate orange", again to which he waffled saying his experience was of everyone committed to a positive result.

She pointed out that the EU had produced 9 position papers but the Government had only produced one on citizenship and did it actually have a plan. He replied saying the Government's plans were clearly outlined in the White Paper and the Queen's Speech () and that 3 more position papers will be produced today and that Davis will continue to keep parliament and the public informed .

Filled me with confidence

[BiglyBadgers]

Here's Starmer on labour's position on the repeal bill

Starmer said that the bill would not gain Labour’s support in its current form. “We have very serious issues with the government’s approach, and unless the government addresses those issues, we will not be supporting the bill,” Starmer said.

He said Labour would demand concessions in six areas. These include ensuring that workers’ rights in Britain do not fall behind those in the EU; incorporating the European Charter of Fundamental Rights into UK law; and limiting the scope of so-called “Henry VIII powers”, which could allow the government to alter legislation with minimal parliamentary scrutiny.

“These issues are serious, they’re reasonable and we’re very firm about them. So we’re really putting the government on notice,” he said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/12/labour-tories-great-repeal-bill-brexit-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[BiglyBadgers]

R4 is entertaining this morning. Good challenge on the government saying they are listening and then dismissing everyone who raised any concerns at all with their approach to Brexit including the report from the audit watchdog.

[frumpety]

Thank you for another thread Red hope you feel better soon .

Hashi hope your husband gets better soon too

[HesterThrale]

Bigly I agree with a lot of your 8:00 post. I just wonder - do we actually think there is such a thing as a soft Brexit? The EU keep saying there is either hard Brexit or no Brexit.
Are Labour playing the long game; unwinding it and making it slowly impossible to achieve, while public opinion changes? I want to believe that.