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Brexit

Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2017 12:39

Welcome to the Listening Parliament.

Have you noticed it yet?

The Three Monkeys of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil have been in a bit of a fight with didn’t fair well. Its funny how politicians of all shades and levels are desperate to prove just how good they at listening and how they see the problems.

Its quite incredible to think that officials elected to serve the public are even in this position where they are having suddenly think about how they show they are listening. It rather shows up that they have been accustomed to telling the public what to think and what to believe.

What they are still to work out, is that in saying they are listening, they also have to demonstrate they are listening and be credible.

The trouble is, that even though some of the monkeys have been killed off, we still have a lot of monkeys in parliament. 'Monkey say, Monkey do' actions still lurk. Politicians who imitate others without understanding the consequences.

There is no point in listening if you are only listening to one group and don’t understand the consequences of simply repeating the words of others.

Politicians saying they are listening when you can find dozens of incidents where they have said completely the opposition, without having the gumption to explain they have changed their position and without having the grace to explain the evidence that has lead them to change that position rather undermines the idea they are listening.

U-Turns are not a bad thing. U-Turns can show that you were making an error but were wise enough to admit that and why you were wrong. U-Turns are bad when you fail to acknowledge your failings and only do it to chase votes. This is where cynicism creeps in and lack of trust in politicians occurs.

Listening also requires actions to reflect words. There is no good in saying one thing, if your actions don’t reflect that. This is where the Listening Parliament is already failing. And I’m sure we will see it more.

Above all, listening is only part of a conversation. A politician is supposed to be accountable. They are supposed to have their eyes open to evil, not deaf to it and not unwilling to speak inconvenient truths where they recognise the evil.

Any politician who tells you they listen needs to back it up somehow. They need to demonstrate and justify their positions accurately. If they don’t they aren’t listening properly.

Isn’t it funny how it was in Hartlepool that the monkey got hung for being a Frenchman? No one was there to explain differently.

OP posts:
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/07/2017 11:29

To the public certainly, but perhaps they've been whispering sweet nothings into businesses' ears to reassure them? And if any of it has been documented, that would be problematic for the Government.

PattyPenguin · 05/07/2017 11:37

And wouldn't it be very lax management to base future decisions on investment and, say, manufacturing arrangements without having any promises in an undeniable written form?

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2017 11:50

Seeing as this has cropped up on Westministenders before:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40506109?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central
Jacob Rees-Mogg announces baby Sixtus

No that's not a reference to Rees-Mogg being a relic who has just had his sixth child. That's the child's name.

Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher Rees-Mogg

There were five pope's called Sixtus. The last was 1590.

He joins:
Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius Rees-Mogg
Thomas Wentworth Somerset Dunstan Rees-Mogg
Peter Theodore Alphege Rees-Mogg
Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam Rees-Mogg
Mary Anne Charlotte Emma Rees-Mogg

(Mary isn't just Mary!)

Do you think it will hit the MN baby names section now?

OP posts:
Peregrina · 05/07/2017 12:04

Maybe Mrs Rees-Mogg decided on girl names - and hence, nice normal names, and Dad had the final say on boy names, hence the whiff of pretentiousness?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/07/2017 12:27

Mary has other names! I'm glad for her, though it was an easy short cut to demonstrate his unreasonableness. Ah well, will have to point to the things he says instead

citroenpresse · 05/07/2017 12:29

One girl and 5 boys, all under 10...but of course he has his trusty retainer - nanny. Tea at Fortnum and Mason (with Jacob R-M and nanny) was a vote leave fundraiser auction object (went for 5,000 quid).

ElenaGreco123 · 05/07/2017 12:53

Congratulations to the Rees-Moggs.

citroen I don't want to look it upon Google. Were you just joking about the vote leave fundraiser?

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 05/07/2017 13:01

Jacob Rees-Mogg - wow.

I kind of have a bit of a soft spot for him, he's just so fabulously old fashioned.

But then I'm reminded that he's an MP and has quite a lot of power and influence. And I feel Sad

HesterThrale · 05/07/2017 13:03

So red I'm a bit confused about the article you posted about the new Tory MEP. It's weird anyway, but when an MEP leaves, dont they have to hold a by-election like with MPs? The party can just replace them? Seems a bit undemocratic; you don't get to choose your representative in Brussels.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/paranormal-expert-rupert-matthews-heads-for-brussels-kndg3qqt8

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/07/2017 13:05

James Melville‏
@JamesMelville
Theresa May at #PMQs - "It isn't fair to load debts on our children."
She forgets that Tories doubled national debt to £1.9trn since 2010.

Jo Maugham QC‏Verified account @JolyonMaugham

Jo Maugham QC Retweeted James Melville
Says a PM busy loading £15bn per annum of debt onto young people to pay for a Brexit they vigorously oppose.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/07/2017 13:27

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/820266/Grenfell-Tower-asbestos-over-homes-health-risk-Public-Health-England

Grenfell Tower was riddled with ASBESTOS which blew over neighbouring homes

howabout · 05/07/2017 13:28

Big congratulations to JRM Wine Smile

howabout · 05/07/2017 13:33

Pain that is truly shocking. DD asked why there had been changes to insulation / cladding etc which had turned out to be flammable. One of the reasons which sprang to mind was the need to remove / avoid asbestos. Unbelievable that £8.5 m was spent on a substandard refurb of an asbestos riddled building. Shock

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 05/07/2017 13:35

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/05/grenfell-fire-public-inquiry-stitch-up-red-tape-regulation-policy-exchange

The Grenfell inquiry will be a stitch-up. Here’s why by George Monbiot

howabout · 05/07/2017 14:05

Whenever I read or hear Ian Dunt my first reaction is to say he should stick to talking about things he knows and understands. Turns out this is precious little other than journalism and pornography. Also turns out I am not the first person to have had this thought.

iamtonyrandall.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/an-open-letter-to-ian-dunt/

Never let it be said that Brexit supporters don't consider the qualifications of experts.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2017 14:19

John Simpson @ johnsimpsonnews
Many French think Emmanuel Macron is becoming too grand & monarchical. They want good honest government, not a reheated Charles de Gaulle

OP posts:
HashiAsLarry · 05/07/2017 14:27

I can't believe they went for sixtus when they missed out in the far superior quintus.

howabout · 05/07/2017 14:39

Re Macron a few very bored journos on twitter post his speech commenting on its length and noting that his preferred means of communication appears to be monologue.

I am not a fan having heard him interviewed as a junior member of Hollande's team, lecturing the UK pre EU ref.

howabout · 05/07/2017 14:45

Coming back to discussion of experts and also UK productivity.

Just endured a fortnight of handwringing on the prospects of Scotland entering technical recession. It hasn't. I suspected it probably wouldn't. Why? AF Neil pointed out temporary oil and manufacturing shut downs in January which were artificially depressing the numbers. I doubt the upside will now be widely covered.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40498752

And a good concise piece from Kamal on why low wages / cheap labour may be driving down productivity and the consequent effects on growth, tax receipts and living standards.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40506570

LurkingHusband · 05/07/2017 14:54

82% of Italian academics in the UK are preparing to leave after Brexit. And it looks like they could take Mr D'Arcy with them ...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/23/colin-firth-applies-italian-citizenship/

Valentine2 · 05/07/2017 15:36

I felt like that too when Macron refused to engage with press a few days ago.
He needs to build a better reputation than that now.

LurkingHusband · 05/07/2017 15:42

Coming back to discussion of experts and also UK productivity.

I think the answer is bleeding obvious.

Lack of investment.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/04/uk-manufacturers-brexit-cuts-business

HesterThrale · 05/07/2017 16:48

Yep lurking I agree with the article you posted. We've come so far down the road in lost time, that even though there is no clear plan and we don't know if it'll be a hard Brexit, businesses will have to start putting into action their contingency plans anyway. I guess they can't hang around, and need to be ahead of the game.

LurkingHusband · 05/07/2017 17:19

The problem is (and the UK should have learned this from it's disastrous industrial past) delayed investment increases the cost of investment in the future.

The recent lack of investment in IT upgrades and the WannaCry incident might serve as trivial examples.

All big companies I've worked for have Multi year budgets, and were already looking to 2019/20 last year. They can't faff about with uncertainties, so either won't invest, or will ensure investment isn't wasted. Which as things stand mean investing outside the UK, and into the EU.

Drifting slightly, but it's hard not to feel sorry for the current 16 year olds, as by the time they are 18, they'll know what choices they have lost ... younger generations will only know from elders tales.

PurplePeppers · 05/07/2017 17:52

Macron has a totally different style than his predecessors, esp the last one!
I personally think France needs someone with a lot of determination to be able to make some of the changes it needs to make, the ones everyone's knows they have to happen but still hasn't been done due to the strong resistance of the unions for example.
All the changes in the 'code du travail' have been talked about by at least the last two presidents and neither of them have managed to do anything. Same with pensions etc...

So atm I'm on the fence. I'm waiting to see what sort of changes he is bringing and whether he will actually put them in place.

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