If we just cancelled Brexit....

[GraceGrape]

...do you think there would really be that much fuss?

I posted on the id card thread that it would be much less hassle if we could just cancel Brexit. It got me wishful thinking that this could actually be possible!

Even the most ardent leavers are starting to downplay its likelihood of success. Key figures like Gisela Stuart have admitted it's all been handled disastrously. The economy is starting to look a bit shit before we've even left. According to the pro- leave camp, we all apparently knew there would be a recession but it would still be "worth it" if you're independently wealthy like Garage, IDS or Bojo maybe.

Anyway, I think it would be typically British if we just harrumphed a bit and said "Well, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all. The referendum was only advisory y'know."

As a nation, we don't tend to like big changes so I think a lot of people would be secretly relieved. There might be a bit of grumbling, and maybe Farage would leave the country in disgust as an added bonus. We could then sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened, as the Brits tend to do with some of the more unsavoury parts of our history anyway. It would also save us the humiliation of seeing David Davis try to do any more negotiating.

Fuck that. Each and every country should have the right to decide how many (or few) refugees they want to take in.

So if they were arriving in their thousands on British beaches you wouldn't expect help from anyone else?

Everyone just had the opportunity to get a vote on the final Brexit deal, with the option to remain if we didn't like it... it was called voting for the liberal democrats.

No one voted for them. Everyone voted for parties who intend to leave the EU with no further input from the British public.,

Clearly not many people wanted another vote on leaving the EU.

Maybe everyone was too busy being blinded by the utopia put forward by labour to realise that they could have stopped Brexit if they wanted to...

Oh, forgot health and safety directives. Because we're good at that in the UK, aren't we?

Clearly not many people wanted another vote on leaving the EU.
That's one hell of a leap. The GE was about more than Brexit. If you want to know what people think about Brexit now, you have to ask them just about Brexit. Clearly.

Everyone just had the opportunity to get a vote on the final Brexit deal, with the option to remain if we didn't like it... it was called voting for the liberal democrats

^incorrect. It was a general election not an EU referendum.

I voted remain and accept the advisory referendum result. Given it was such a close margin, I'm uncomfortable that it's been treated as an absolute result. Especially as in a general election there is a minimum needed for a majority. Why not for a referendum?

Everyone just had the opportunity to get a vote on the final Brexit deal, with the option to remain if we didn't like it... it was called voting for the liberal democrats
Actually I thought about how could we potential sort out the mess the country is as a whole and compromised and voted Labour. Many people I know who would rather remain did. Voting Labour didn't mean I like Brexit. I know some people who voted Tory who also think Brexit is a stupid idea. So instead of a few eurosceptics we now have lots of brexitsceptics. I find it difficult to understand why the Tories are going hell for leather for thus when the received wisdom is it will take a minimum of 25 years to sort out. My friend who is a director in a v large bank says 40. If you look at the Tories core voters and the demographic that voted for Brexit in large numbers, they won't be around. (It's almost like the Tories don't get that their core voters are dying off).

This argument about the election is getting tiresome. None of the parties (except possibly UKIP?) was proposing to restore capital punishment. Can we deduce from this that no-one in the UK wants capital punishment? This 85% figure relies on a belief that people voted in the election solely on Brexit policy and nothing else - that's patently absurd.

It's this constant repetition of things that they must know deep down are untrue that is so frustrating. I mean on social media you get a constant stream of "the EU is about to collapse" and "German carmakers will insist on us having a good deal". We can see that neither of these is the case so why say them? If you can't make a reasoned case for Brexit then why should we do it at all? The argument seems to be "We voted for it once so we're not allowed to reconsider our decision in the light of further knowledge and evidence, we must continue even though we no longer believe it's a good thing."

I would also be delighted were Brexit to be abandoned.

DH would be angry, but that wouldn't bother me.

Damn the EU and its progressive and humanistic vision

Lol

If you really consider Brexit to be the economic disaster as made out on numerous threads, labour won't have the money to fulfill the majority of their manifesto.

The only party to pledge any opportunity to walk away from Brexit is the liberal democrats.

The result of the general election shows that not enough people consider it the overriding issue, and one they really need another vote on.

If you look at the Tories core voters and the demographic that voted for Brexit in large numbers, they won't be around. (It's almost like the Tories don't get that their core voters are dying off).

Can you show the evidence that voting to leave or remain in the EU is a cohort effect rather than a life stage one (i.e. that people's views on the EU are fixed and don't change as they grow older, as happens with other political views btw ) as I haven't seen any?

If you look at the Tories core voters and the demographic that voted for Brexit in large numbers, they won't be around. (It's almost like the Tories don't get that their core voters are dying off).

The young, working class voters in lower socioeconomic groups and those who didn't/won't go to university swung to Tory from Labour in this GE - also a large part of the Brexit demographic.

Why will they cease to be around?
Why is their vote not considered important or worthy?

time.com/4381878/brexit-generation-gap-older-younger-voters/

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/

The young that voted Brexit will ofcourse be around. Many will keep with their original thinking and many will not. Many I know have already changed their minds as have older people I know. That is ofcourse anecdotal and can't be generalised.
Polls indicate that the vote today would be remain.
Research shows that the generation coming through are less likely to vote Tory. Education levels have more to do with this than protecting already acquired wealth. As th.e next generation are less likely to be home owners or in possession of a large pension (this includes gen x), Tory policies are less likely to appeal to them. I could of course be wrong. I read widely and look at all sides of an argument even Daniel Hannan (who makes my skin crawl)

And I don't think it's anything to do with 'worthiness'. It's a numbers game. If your policies don't appeal to the demographic coming through (and it's being shown they largely won't), people won't vote for you in enough numbers to command a majority government. Voter demographics are changing.

As th.e next generation are less likely to be home owners or in possession of a large pension (this includes gen x

I hate it when people write off whole generations. I come from the generation who left school to join the 3 million unemployed on the dole queue.
I and like a lot of others who didn't believe the headlines that we would never be employed went out and got jobs. Infact like everyone else who really wanted to and wasn't fussed on the salary there were jobs to be had. You were also able to work evenings and weekends to make up your money.

Just because the headlines say that no one under a certain age is ever going to own a place of their own doesn't mean it is true.

With the agreement of the other 27 countries we could withdraw our Article 50 notice, though the terms they would impose on us as a price would be horrific. But we won't, because Brexit was a democratic decision and can no more be 'cancelled' than the result of the recent General Election.

We voted to leave and leave we will. The Referendum was not advisory, it was binding because Parliament said it was. The campaign which was based on lies was Remain - it wasn't called Project Fear for nothing. How many of their predictions have come true? About none, except perhaps for the modest fall in the GBP/USD and GBP/Euro exchange rates, which is a good thing. And please nobody bother to respond with the £350m bus... that wasn't any kind of promise, and we'll decide what to do with the money when we finally stop paying it to Brussels.

Leaving may lead to some short-term problems but in the end it will be for the best. The alternative is the UK ending up as a series of provinces of Greater Germany, ruled by unelected foreign technocrats.

And to those who seem to think people's political views are set at 20 and never change, ITYF experience is a great (if hard) teacher. Many of us were well to the left... until we discovered a bit more about how the world really works, and began to rely on knowledge and understanding a bit more, and emotions and peer pressure a bit less. Old Tories may die, but just because somebody is a staunch Labour supporter at 20 doesn't mean they won't grow out of it.

This all just sounds to me like Leavers are scared of another referendum.

The longer the Brexit process continues the worse it looks.

• Leaving the EU will save a fortune (lets spend it on the NHS)

- actually it will cost a fortune

• We will get back our sovereignty

- never lost it in the first place

If leavers are so sure the public is still in favour of Brexit they shouldn't be scared of another referendum. They should embrace the opportunity for a proper mandate now the country has more idea what they are actually voting for.

Bugger - my post was reformatted. Not sure it makes much sense now.

Oh and don't mention the £350 million a week for the NHS - because that was the one inconvenient 'promise' which many saw as something tangible which they could vote for. Which the Leave campaign reneged on immediately. Oh no, we won't mention that. But we will mention Project Fear, which is happening. And we will mention an advisory Referendum which the legislation says was Advisory, but David Cameron (remember him?) promised it would be enacted, a promise which his successor embraced with enthusiasm. But bingo, my grandson, at present a baby, can look forward to the country being prosperous when he's middle aged. What a prospect!

Some of us, living in the real world and voting for getting on for 50 years have probably moved leftwards.

£350 million a week for the NHS ... Which the Leave campaign reneged on immediately

If there's one image that sums up the Leave campaign to me it's the faces of Gove and Johnson looking ecstatic at their victory.

- We will get back our sovereignty
- never lost it in the first place

Ummh. We will be able to make all our own laws and policies and won't be subject to EU laws and policies. I think this is what people mean by soveriegnty and clearly the situation will be different after we exit the EU.

I believe this will happen and i believe the media is preparing us to want it.

won't be subject to EU laws and policies.
Unless we wish to trade with them. Which I have to assume that Leavers don't want us to do.

Some EU laws are international laws rubber stamped by them. So we had better opt out of international laws too.

We will be able to make all our own laws and policies and won't be subject to EU laws and policies.

The only way to guarantee that we are not subject to EU laws and policies is to have no relationship with the EU and not to trade with the EU.

Much of this "sovereignty" business is an illusion.

"...My greatest reason for optimism is a longer-term, structural one. Unlike almost everybody else, I’m reassured rather than terrified by the creative destruction that is engulfing our political system. It will eventually lead to a dramatic improvement in the way we govern ourselves, and in the quality of our political class. The sense of malaise across swathes of the country, the realisation that the UK’s political institutions are inadequate, the anger at the endless failures – all of that confirms that the Brexit process is forcing us to grow up and to confront our weaknesses.^..
...^Over time, this institutional rebirth and the return of widespread political literacy will make it easier for us to grasp the great questions facing our future. That is why, unlike many on the centre-Right, I remain relatively upbeat. As long as Corbyn is kept out of Downing Street, the pieces will eventually fall into place. We will be forced to confront our failed welfare state, our crippling tax system, our inadequate education systemm^. We will have no choice but to begin a real debate about security and international arrangements. We will, in other words, have grown up..."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/28/political-chaos-doesnt-scare-sign-britain-growing/