If we just cancelled Brexit....

[GraceGrape]

...do you think there would really be that much fuss?

I posted on the id card thread that it would be much less hassle if we could just cancel Brexit. It got me wishful thinking that this could actually be possible!

Even the most ardent leavers are starting to downplay its likelihood of success. Key figures like Gisela Stuart have admitted it's all been handled disastrously. The economy is starting to look a bit shit before we've even left. According to the pro- leave camp, we all apparently knew there would be a recession but it would still be "worth it" if you're independently wealthy like Garage, IDS or Bojo maybe.

Anyway, I think it would be typically British if we just harrumphed a bit and said "Well, maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all. The referendum was only advisory y'know."

As a nation, we don't tend to like big changes so I think a lot of people would be secretly relieved. There might be a bit of grumbling, and maybe Farage would leave the country in disgust as an added bonus. We could then sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened, as the Brits tend to do with some of the more unsavoury parts of our history anyway. It would also save us the humiliation of seeing David Davis try to do any more negotiating.

What we need is a face-saving 'brexit-lite' as quickly as possible that prioritises jobs and economic stability.

I think it's probably politically impossible to ignore the result now. The only thing that is likely to stop it would be some terrible calamitous externality eg a terrorist attack akin to an act of war - that temporarily reunites the country around a common enemy. (Not advocating this - obviously - just offering my view fwiw as to how far down the path of no return we are).

As I understand it, the Norway government wanted full membership because it is much better but they couldn't sell it politically to the general populace, so they had to settle for a half way house.

Why is it ok to ignore a majority vote?
Because the majority are stupid? (Believed lies)
Are wrong? (don't agree with me)
Shouldn't have a vote (too old/young/uneducated/rural/working class)
I'm a patronising arse so trapped in my own bubble I can't see anyone else's point of view and even if I could don't believe it has any validity because it's all about ME?

Tick the box that applies to your thinking and give your head a wobble

Infinite - you missed out "because hundreds of thousands of people did not get a vote and were disenfranchised from something which directly affectrd them". Too right I am angry that my rights are being removed and I wasn't even allowed a say.

"you don't have another one until you get the result you want"

No I know that, and I think it's highly likely that brexit will go ahead, but I can still be very frustrated that such an enormous decision was made following such a crappy campaign, where many people didn't know what they were voting for, which is fair to say, because here we are a year later, and we still don't know what brexit means, apart from the fact that it doesn't mean what the leave campaign told us it meant.

I spoke to several farmers at the time, all parroted Farage sound bites about his idea of brexit utopia. They're not thick, and I'm not saying that they are, but given Cameron's arrogance of calling the referendum, and his smugness that he couldn't possibly fail, a lot of people didn't want to vote for remain because of that, but at the same time, they didn't seem to realise that at the same time they were shooting themselves in the foot. They now know, and are very worried for the future.

Also if Brexit is cancelled I know my hubby would be angry and feel disenfranchised not sure quite how more than half the country being ignored politically would end up
Um.

Well we can't be making hubbies angry...

I agree with Olennas and I think using the part of the Good Friday Agreement that deals with reunification is an excellent and sensible idea.

I don't think there would be riots if we stopped it. It is those tending towards liberalism and youth who tend to turn out to march in the streets, and (speaking very generally), the Leave demographic was more conservative and older.

As for dictatorship and democracy, as a PP says, Nigel Fuckface said the Brexiters would not accept a close result if it had been to remain.

And Theresa May did her damnedest to avoid having it discussed, let alone voted on, in parliament, which is surely one definition of subverting the democratic process.

And now she's bribed a bunch of creationist homophobes to prop up her tottering government. NOT a shining example of democracy.

God help us but the majority of people who voted - just over a third of the electorate- voted Leave. We are stuck with it.
Before Leavers start whining at me for saying just over a third blah blah - you would SO be saying the same it Remain had won by the same margin.

Why is it ok to ignore a majority vote?

As I said upthread, I think that in practice Brexit could now only be cancelled via a second referendum or an election fought specifically in this issue.

However, in countries with a sensible (written) constitution, no constitutional change of this magnitude would ever be made on the basis of a slim majority in an advisory referendum.

Mis - the Irish constitution requires all major changes to be approved by referendum - claim on NIreland removed; equal marriage etc.

Trouble is - this was an attempt to get a simple answer to a complicated question. And we are stuck with it.

"Why is it ok to ignore a majority vote?
Because the majority are stupid? (Believed lies)"

Well since we know the extent that they lied now - ie. there will be no more money for the NHS, leaving the single market will be catastrophic for jobs/economy, NI Peace is under threat, we always had sovereignty anyway - it is a bit mad to keep going for it.

Almost like we're too embarrassed to back out of something, even though it's going to bad for most of us (unless you're Jacob Rees Mogg - he'll be ok).

Bad news for fellow Remainers is that a large number of Leave voters knew the NHS stuff etc was all bullshit.
We have to face the fact that the principle of not being part of the EU was a big part of the Leave vote.
Doesn't mean I think it was anything other than a stupid idea but if we kid ourselves about why people voted Leave, we won't get anywhere.

Clalpolly - Immigration?

I heard a strawberry farmer talking on R4 t'other day. He voted leave for "Sovereignty" (another lie) - and is now wondering where he'll get his staff from after brexit.

Shoes, I'm trying to be polite about Leave votes but there genuinely is no accounting for people who voted Leave for idiot reasons. And who have now screwed things up for everyone.

I heard a strawberry farmer talking on R4 t'other day. He voted leave for "Sovereignty" (another lie) - and is now wondering where he'll get his staff from after brexit.

I don't think he need worry. People will be falling over themselves to take shit and extremely poorly paid jobs after Brexit when their much better paid jobs have disappeared over the Channel.

I don't know whether or or is the more appropriate emoticon here... I've become very gallows-humoured about it in real life, as have most other remainers I know.

Mis - the Irish constitution requires all major changes to be approved by referendum - claim on NIreland removed; equal marriage etc.

Huge difference being Ireland has an referendum commission to ensure both sides of the argument are given equal media coverage and that any false claims are exposed and quashed. It also sends a pamphlet of impartial information on the issue in question to every household in the country.

The Brexit ref was just a wild beast allowed to do its own thing and be manipulated by interested parties, it was not a great moment for democracy.

Scrum - you are correct, of course. The absence of decent fact checking or reasonable discussion- that I have seen in Ireland- was totally missing.
It felt like going on an ill-conceived piss up with people you didn't really know and hoping you'd come out the next morning ok. Only we're not ok.

Gallows humour is the only option, Shoes.

I think some people voted leave because of their own reasons not because of what was written on the side of a bus or what politicians told them.

Some felt like the Britain David Cameron et all lived in was not the same as they did.

The reasons for remaining didn't apply to them

www.toypassport.co.uk

Could this be part of the cancellation deal?

This:

I heard a strawberry farmer talking on R4 t'other day. He voted leave for "Sovereignty" (another lie) - and is now wondering where he'll get his staff from after brexit.

Oh and what about the guy who owns the Wetherspoons chain? He was/is a massive Brexit supporter but is now saying that maybe special allowances should be made for foreign workers intending to work in the service industry ie. His shitty pubs. He doesn't want his life to be inconvenienced by Brexit, just everyone else.

"Why is it ok to ignore a majority vote? "

I think the question should be "when" not "why". It's ok to ignore the original vote when the majority change their minds and no longer support Brexit.