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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Brexit Apprentice

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/06/2017 16:26

Theresa May is increasing looking like she is running an episode of the Apprentice with two teams trying to compete in their plan for Brexit. Complete with the obligatory reprehensible contestants.

On one side we have Team Creationists intent on hard Brexit and on the other we have Team Sensibles desperate to get a softer deal.
May herself has been held hostage by seasoned expert negotiators the DUP. Once No 10 has reported the deal was done, only for the DUP to say it wasn’t. Then it said, it would be settled today. But the DUP disagreed and said ‘the weekend’. Now its 'next week'.

Meanwhile the Queen has been messed about with a scapegoat over when her Queen’s Speech will be. It’s likely to be a week on Monday.
Meanwhile the Brexit department is also in chaos.

The Number two in the department was sacked and replaced by a Remainer, and the number three quit amongst reports that he no longer thought Brexit was achievable and that there was no way that the Great Repeal Act could pass through the Lords. He has been replaced by the Head of the infamous Arch-Brexit Whatsapp group.

Oh and Gove got hired. Nuff said on that one.

After some slight back tracking from David Davis, Hard Brexit is still on in all its glory. Negotiations are going ahead next week. Well that’s what we are saying. The EU, on the other hand, don’t won’t to go ahead until we have an officially sworn in government. Which seems pretty fair enough.

Tune in to find out which Team wins this week’ The Brexit Apprentice

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Thread gallery
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MrsKenningtonBag · 15/06/2017 12:01

I can't help but wonder what the cocking hell that 43% are thinking. Continue as is? It's a SHITSHOW.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:02

I have a serious problem with some transgender activists. I have a sibling who is transgender. I would not like them to be discriminated against. The trouble is that what the activists advocate and the way they do it is not truly liberal either because of the way in which it is disrespectful and impinges on the lives of women in a way that is illiberal and has implications. There are actions that some transgender activists take who do not understand that and completely lack sensitivity.

The trouble is that you can not take an action which does not affect the other and in some cases there are very vulnerable people involved on both sides.

I struggled for a long time with it, as I regard myself as liberal. Its when I realised that there was a certain illiberal angle to it tied up in sexism that I started to question it a bit more and think its not quite as black and white as I once believed.

I think its a tough area. Where the line is, I think largely depends on whether there are vulnerable groups involved and what the impact of actions has, and to what extent.

For me, its about actions rather than thoughts. I don't like the idea of thought police.

In this particular case, I'm not sure how much this is about the actions of Farron and how much of it is about thought policing to be honest. Whilst I take the point about not following evidence and absenting in abortion votes, I also think its more about thought policing than that.

I also note the lack of media questions about Farron's voting on abortion where evidence comes into it and holds more weight due to the presence of the scientific element. It been much more focused about LGBT rights, which comes with a powerful and vocal lobby group behind it. If it was about Farron's illiberalism as a whole, why focus on one and virtually ignore the other?

The blindness of the media and the lobbying groups tells a second story too. One which isn't just about promoting liberalism and rights.

What I do think, is that Farron probably couldn't have carried on as leader. Not least because it was about to turn into a party row which would have been damaging to the party. I also think that there are plenty of people who are unable to see past the issue and that undermined the party. I can name two friends who have a very big problem with it (neither is gay).

I think its easy to think its a black and white subject as most people will never find themselves in a situation where their liberalness is really put to the test nor under the microscope.

I think Farron is a decent, honest man of the type which we need more of in parliament. I'd take more Farron than a lot of MPs who blindly tow the party line all the time. His honesty about it all is as much of a problem as his voting record, and that's a shame.

I do have to say that some of what is levelled here is about a desire for perfection. Perfection that is impossible to achieve for any politician. I think recognition of this is also needed. Perhaps Farron isn't right for leader but I do think he has been hounded in a way that also merits its own scrutiny.

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NinonDeLenclos · 15/06/2017 12:03

I have to agree with Bigly, I've already said I think Farron's voting record is a problem for a leader of the LibDem.

He voted against the 2007 Equality Act sexual orientation regulations.

He voted against a law to make it illegal for public services to be denied to gay people; to allow registrars not to carry out gay marriages on religious grounds; to increase protections for people who don’t want to carry out or participate in a same sex marriage ceremony; to make it illegal to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their beliefs about the definition of marriage.

Ben Summerskill, head of Stonewall in 2007, met up with him to ask why and said he never got a clear answer. He was promised a written explanation and it never arrived.

Paddick isn't the only gay person he's pissed off. I've heard arguments between gay friends, some of whom support him and some who don't. I'm sure he's a nice person, but his particular interpretation of Christianity is going to cause controversy as head of the LD.

NinonDeLenclos · 15/06/2017 12:06

Ben Summerskill, head of Stonewall in 2007, met up with him to ask why

That should say why he voted against the 2007 Equality act.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:11

Anyway, I think Grenfall will become the embodiment of consequences of disregarding the value of the poor within our society.

Its a game changer. An attempt to dodge responsibility will not end well.

This is where human rights and the ability to take on the state should be at the back of minds in view of who wishes to remove them.

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whatwouldrondo · 15/06/2017 12:16

Howabout Who was manifesting a casual acceptance that Christianity was incompatible with LGBT and abortion rights? What we were discussing was that these issues are not cut and dried for any of us as Hashi has highlighted, and that they do raise difficult issues for many people of religious beliefs particularly, not all by any means. I have gay friends who are practising Anglicans who self evidently are pro LGBT rights, and yes thoroughly pissed off by the prevarication and fence sitting of the AofC (as well as the almost daily prejudice, discrimination and ableism).

Given Tim Farron has been at such pains to ensure nobody was putting a window on his soul, and that he should be judged on his actions not his beliefs I don't think you can claim he was making theological judgements, who knows? He certainly is quite a way from the beliefs and attitudes of other evangelical christians who seek to play a part in British politics. We had a local candidate who was like something out of the Handmaid's Tale.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:16

Hannah Williams‏*@flamingnora*
I wrote this for @guardian last year. I stand by every word.

Westminstenders: The Brexit Apprentice
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RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:21

David Blevins‏*@skydavidblevins*
Sky sources: No agreement yet between Conservatives and DUP, despite Leader of the House confirming Queen's Speech next Wed.

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*

So: May has announced a hard deadline but without a concluded deal.
This will be fun.
By announcing a hard deadline for Queen's Speech, May has presumably significantly strengthened the negotiating position of the DUP. Fab.

Same mistake as triggering a50. This is a test of that 'bloody difficult woman' strategy and the 'no deal is better than a bad deal' strategy.

Watch out for the agreement being kept secret.

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DividedKingdom · 15/06/2017 12:25

So, interest rates on hold for now but 3/8 (!) votes to raise....let the squeezing begin. Inflation now at 2.9% and I don't see there's any other choice. Nor do the markets apparently since GBPUSD has just jumped up and FTSE skidding down.

LurkingHusband · 15/06/2017 12:25

Maybe this is a good time to reflect that - for all their sins - the LibDems were painfully scrupulous about transparency when they went into coalition in 2010. I have no idea what Camerons desires were, but the LibDems wanted the agreement in black and white, and public (I downloaded a copy) so that it was clear what was going on.

Compare with the past few days, and what we are likely to get.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:25

When do we have that awkward conversation about how Health and Safety 'gone mad' has been linked and blamed on the EU and one of the reasons we should leave.

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whatwouldrondo · 15/06/2017 12:28

Here you go of you want to se how bad it can get... www.ukchristianparty.org

Oh the wriggling on the end of the line

"Love for one’s neighbour, hospitality and compassion for the stranger in one's land, are central tenets of the Christian faith and must be part of one's policy on immigration.

However, a cohesive and sustainable immigration policy is necessary given the fact that there are finite resources available for the well-being of all within our borders.

Unwise stewardship of our limited resources will lead to understandable resentment among British nationals. Such feelings have legitimacy and must not be ignored."

It gets worse "NON-ESSENTIAL TREATMENT
The original purpose of the NHS was to provide good medical care. With the growing burden on the NHS budget, it is an urgent priority to cut-back non-essential services. The Christian Party disagrees that a publicly funded service should provide abortion on demand, sex-changes, IVF treatment and liposuction based on lifestyle choices. The Christian Party urges the Department of Health to review all types of treatments and decide which are core and essential, and which merit payment by private health insurance. "

I see even Bear Grylls no longer puts his image to their charming beliefs....

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:32

Laura Kuenssberg‏*@bbclaurak*

Senior tory source - confident of support to pass Queen's Speech, broad agreement on principles, talks with DUP progressing well

'Broad.'
'Progressing'

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HashiAsLarry · 15/06/2017 12:34

Well if one thing is sure, TM is certainly consistent. Consistent in announcing deals that haven't happened, consistent in putting end dates into place without complete plans, etc etc

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:34

Gareth Davies‏*@Gareth*_Davies09
There are lots of issues in and around #GlenfellTower that must be looked into. This is one of them

Owen Gibson‏ @owen_g
Collapse of local media scrutiny, caused by structural change but accelerated by cost cutting and profit taking, a major issue here.

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RhythmAndStealth · 15/06/2017 12:39

Anyway, I think Grenfall will become the embodiment of consequences of disregarding the value of the poor within our society.

Its a game changer. An attempt to dodge responsibility will not end well.

This is where human rights and the ability to take on the state should be at the back of minds in view of who wishes to remove them.

Wholeheartedly agree.

LurkingHusband · 15/06/2017 12:42

I wonder if the backlash against the DUP - as evinced by posts on MN yesterday, following the NI abortion ruling - have affected Mays hand ?

It was clear from a lot of non-NI posters that they had no idea what the situation was in NI - nor why ...

If you could have chosen a worse day to try and sell the DUP to moderate Tories, you really would have to work hard.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:42

Ian Dunt‏*@IanDunt* 4h
Very telling that newsreaders have switched from saying 'when' Britain leaves the EU to 'if' Britain leaves the EU.

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RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 12:50

order-order.com/2017/06/15/cchq-diverted-resources-seats-tories-lost/
CCHQ Diverted Resources Away from ‘Safe’ Seats Tories Lost

Alex Wickham‏*@WikiGuido*

Some MPs in 'safe' seats were even ordered to knock up in other constituencies on polling day. They then lost their seats.

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HashiAsLarry · 15/06/2017 12:52

@johnredwood
I am optimistic about the EU negotiations. It would help our country if more people got behind the government’s stance.

Good news guys, the government has a stance apparently. We all need to get behind if, although they won't tell us what it is Confused

Peregrina · 15/06/2017 12:55

Never heard of the UK Christian Party but they seem like UKIP at prayer in the same way that (high) Anglican churches are the Tory party at prayer.

squoosh · 15/06/2017 12:55

Oh of course. If only the people would get behind.....................that thing that they're not telling us about.

TheElementsSong · 15/06/2017 12:57

It would help our country if more people got behind the government’s stance.

Translation: Or you'll be on the list of scapegoats to be blamed for poofing the shit and the fan into existence.

RedToothBrush · 15/06/2017 13:00

Mayor of London‏*@MayorofLondon*

I’m demanding a full & independent Public Inquiry into the fire at #GrenfellTower. Read my statement here:
www.facebook.com/MayorofLondon/posts/479513149061514

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LemonSalad · 15/06/2017 13:01

When do we have that awkward conversation about how Health and Safety 'gone mad' has been linked and blamed on the EU and one of the reasons we should leave.

Absolutely and this is a case where more / stricter European health and safety regulations could have saved many lives.
An article in German broadsheet FAZ says the type of flammable cladding that according to the Guardian was used at Grenfell Tower would have been illegal on any building higher than 22 meters in Germany / 7 stories in Austria. In an interview with the same newspaper Frankfurt's chief fire officer says the lax regulations in Britain and France (among others) have created death traps waiting to happen but that lobbyists have thwarted campaigners' efforts to improve security standards for years.

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