If you want to leave the EU and voted Labour, tell your MP or candidate

[CrossWordSalad]

The Labour manifesto promised to honour the referendum result, leave the EU, end freedom of movement and leave the single market.

I am aware that not everyone who voted Labour wants to leave the EU, but many do. In addition many who voted remain want to see the referendum result honoured even though they would not have chosen to leave initially.

Many people, including politicians, are now trying to present votes for Labour as votes against Brexit, against leaving the single market and in favour of freedom of movement. This is the opposite of what is in the Labour manifesto, and is a lie.

If you voted Labour believing that Labour would honour the referendum result and their manifesto promises to leave the EU, leave the single market and end freedom of movement, please be aware that some people are trying to "reinterpret" your vote as a vote against Brexit.

It looks like Brexit will be negotiated by a cross party group, and the views of Labour MPs and the Labour party are very important.

A "soft" Brexit, in the single market and with freedom of movement, is basically no Brexit. It just means we carry on as we are but without being party to EU decision making.

If you are concerned about this, you should consider letting your MP know. You should be able to find their email by googling.

Thanks for the reminder cross.

Just wrote to my Tory MP to say it's clear the people of the uk do not want a hard Brexit. A softer Brexit where we stay in the EEA would be much more sensible.

Cross, I think this is beyond writitng to MPs, any MP. We know, the vast majority of MPs supported remain. The result was then shrouded in the , 'ignorant voters, utter disaster, silly mistake, they didnt know what the impact would be' rhetoric. (not to mention the racists knuckle dragging 'far right' labels etc)

The Brexit vote was utterly a-political. I was not only over the moon about the result, I was over the moon that Leave voters (and indeed the same can be said of remain) crossed all political spectrums, all social divides. If you are a believer that no one in the NHS voted leave, you are still missing the fundamntal point. They did.

What we have today, is what we are seeing in the horrific aftermath of Grenfell. Those desperate to make it party political. We have an extension of the identity politics the remain campaign were desperate to promote.

Grenfell was caused by Tory Scum. Brexit was caused by ignorant racists.
Indeed for a brief moment this week, the media reported, utterly incorrectly, that the fire started in a 'british white males flat, who'd spent time packing his own bags rather than alerting his ethnic diverse neighbours', they nearly managed to combine the two.

Writing to MPs, of any party, will be utterly futile for the forseeable future. One thing all a-political referendum voters should be united in is, that UK politicians, all of them, (including Corbyn who is of course in the 'political' class with his own agenda), have utterly lost touch with the people they represent.

Corbyn, John McDonnell, dont represent the Labour Party, and this knee jerk reaction from within the party to the perceived 'success' of Corbyn at the GE is doomed to fail.

TBH, Today Im simply going to sit back and let this political mess implode. The Corbynistas believe theyre on a roll, they indeed maybe, but its not a Labour party roll. The tories believe they can semblance some control back from an utterly chaotic position, at the moment they cant.

Other runners are quite simply not even pulling together to provide any alternative, Farrons run off, even Sturgeons gone quiet, because they dont know how.

The reason being is that the electorate, ignored party politics a year ago and voted in the most powerful vote this country has possibly ever seen. The electorate ignored identity politics. Its that, that will see the undoing of any political party or politician who pins their rhetoric to the identity politics flag pole, and in doing so, they dont know what the fuck to do now. That includes Corbyn.

Whenshewasbad - that's very comendable of you to write to your MP on behalf of the whole of the UK!

Just wrote to my Tory MP to say it's clear the people of the uk do not want a hard Brexit

And yet the vast majority voted Tory or Labour who both promised Brexit, leaving the SM and ending FOM in this manifestos Perhaps, like the referendum, they didn't know what they were voting for and we need the clever people to interpret their votes for them.

Carolines You are probably right.

If you are a believer that no one in the NHS voted leave, you are still missing the fundamntal point. They did.

Of course they did. What about the red bus with £350 million a week going to the EU. Let's spend that on the NHS? How many did BoJo and Gisela Stuart dupe with that promise only to hear, in Gisela Stuart's case - we never said we would spend it, we said we could.
Theresa May, who was supposed to be getting the huge majority, remember, decided that it was all about immigration - whether because that suited her own prejudice or to appease her right wing and UKIP, no one knew - until this election, when her version of what the future holds, including her version of Brexit, was not endorsed or she would be in Downing Street now with 80+ additional seats.

Those desperate to make it party political.

Political certainly, and since austerity was a key policy of Osborne's carried on by May, plus Kensington and Chelsea being a Conservative Borough, it can be argued that it was party political. Not that you will accept that, but I strongly suspect you would have done if it had happened under a Labour Government watch, with a Labour local authority.

Whenshewasbad - that's very comendable of you to write to your MP on behalf of the whole of the UK

Why thank you. Don't get me wrong I would love it if he read my email and that single one changed his mind.
What I'm actually hoping is that he (and all the other MPs) gets hundreds of similar emails.

Anyway, I think Labour fudged the brexit issue completely - they seem to have buried their head in the sand. Not edifying.

No, but in fact so long as they don't get into power quite practical since actually they can just sit back and criticise the negotiations as they go along.

By the way, how long is it since anyone gave us any practical benefits of Brexit? Why exactly are we going to spend billions making ourselves worse off? Seems like all I read now is "it was the will of the people". And please spare me the crap about "Leave made it perfectly clear what Leave meant" I watched and read plenty of the discussion around the Referendum and it was ALWAYS said that the exact nature of Brexit was to be decided by Parliament - of course a few Leave advocates made clear what they as individuals wanted.

And the utter nonsense of insisting that we still have to follow a course of action even when it is revealed that it's obviously a bad idea. Should we be still on the Gold Standard? Basing public health on the miasma theory? IF Brexit proves to be disastrous as looks highly likely then politicians of courage who put the country first should join together cross-party and tell us so. Take back control!

EEA / EFTA is leaving the EU.
Norway and the other EFTA countries are not in the EU

Prominent Leavers before the referendum were saying voting for Brexit did NOT mean leaving the single market, just having more control
Which Norway & co do.

Since the referendum was only a narrow win - and some voted mainly to kick Cameron and end austerity - it seems sensible to go for a form of Brexit that most Remainers could live with too.

That way, according to polls, we get say 60-70% of the public behind the same policy
It would be the least divisive option and also the option that would cause the least economic harm

Also, within the A50 time limit, negotiating EEA / EFTA to add Financial Passporting for the City Of London is the only solution possible within the A50 time limit.
Otherwise, it's crash out without a deal - and you can read longtime Leave campaigner Richard North on how damaging that would be.
He advocates his "Flexcit" which is at least knowledge based and feasible.

Given the precarious (indeed, unstable) state of the government, do any Leavers feel very confident about negotiations starting tomorrow?

I will write to my new Labour MP to reiterate that my vote for her wasn't an endorsement of Brexit, hard or otherwise, but I do live in an area that voted Leave so I do expect her to take the views of the constituency into account. I just don't take it as read that all our Leave voters wanted what appears to be unfolding.

Captain, TBH, at the moment, Im not particularly interested. Ive resigned myself to persistent prevarication from almost all political sides, bleeting remainers, and empty squeels of we're doomed if we dont negotiate. Guess what? Were not doomed if we dont negotiate. Carry on, eat away the time, Im not fussed. I voted leave. A50s been served. Thats it.
Itll piss me off a tad if the EU council get away with billing us an utterly unrealistic amount, for the priviledge of leaving, but if thats the price we will have to pay because of the 'soft brexit' procrastinators, (and we missed our opportunities to push back hard) then so be it.
I dont subscribe to 'no deal is worse than any deal'. Not when world market values are far more competetive than the EU.

Come back to me when youve got this fantastical 'soft brexit' on the negotiating table with Brussels, and Ill let you know my views, as will another 17 million of us, but regards being 'confident', theres no need to not feel confident.

Perhaps your question would be better aimed at remainers, who are pinning hopes on securing a negotiated 'not-really brexit' brexit?

Itll piss me off a tad if the EU council get away with billing us an utterly unrealistic amount, for the priviledge of leaving, but if thats the price we will have to pay because of the 'soft brexit' procrastinators, (and we missed our opportunities to push back hard) then so be it.

Who exactly are the soft brexit procrastinators? The best candidate to me under that category would be Theresa May. Instead of trying initially to by pass Parliament and face a legal challenge which she lost, and then appealed against and then lost - she could have gone to Parliament straight away, and started getting on with it, as soon as she had won the Leadership challenge. She can't pretend that she had Parliamentary opposition with 54 SNP, 8 or 9 Lib Dems and 50 odd Labour rebels in a House with 650 seats. But no, not satisfied with wasting time like that, instead of getting on with it at the end of March after she had invoked A 50, what does she do but spout patent nonsense pretending that the HoC was against her, when the arithmetic of the vote had already shown that wasn't the case. So in what would appear to be a desire to best Corbyn, who has had two years being villified by the right wing press, she decided to waste another 8 weeks on an unnecessary General Election, when she already had a small but workable majority. Which she then squandered and is now struggling to form a Government, and has compromised her own position.

I dont disagree with you Peregrina, the impact is exactly that, though the motivators behind why, I do disagree with. (We can agree to differ here..and save really tedious repetition of now worn and tiresome arguments)

Indeed, I think we now have a very strong possibility of another GE this year. So be it. The clock keeps ticking.

The question is, what will that achieve? Definately more ticking away of the clock for sure, the result, Corbyn? Possibly. If Tories, itll simply be a repeat of where we are now. A hung parliament, and another 6 months of deciding who, if anyone, is heading over to Brussels.

I feel remainers are hanging their hats on Corbyn.

Would Corbyn as PM fill me with dread and fear re Brexit? No. Corbyn will simply do to the UK, what Hollande did to France. Corbyn, a professional protester and agitator, I could be easily persuaded to hand over the reins to him. (Plus he has promised to bring my retirement age back down...Yay!)

But there you go JC, now what are you going to do? Youre not in the student unions now.

As Macrons tory star is rising in France, the EUs blue eyed boy is promising dramatic cuts in the public sector finances, castration of French union laws, (zero hours contracts coming to a Ville near you), reductions in corporate taxes to boost the fat tory wallets (as if relaxed employment laws to hire and fire arent enough) add a pledge to tackle the 'work shy', and whilst hes shied away from raising retirement age (unlike all other EU states), hes promised to re-jig the state formula so you retire on a ratio of what youve contributed. Indeed, all the things the agitated masses are protesting against here in the Uk. Could we indeed be heading towards a UK socialist nirvana?

Wheres Brother Corbyn on Brexit? Who knows.

Wheres the EU on Brother Corbyn? Well, Richard Bransons forever grateful hes sipping cocktails on Necker Island (though a tad concerned about having his Virgin Train empire 'compulsory purchased') and the vast majority of EU corporate wealth will be following him.

The exodus of French wealth from France during Hollandes reign, will be nothing compared to the Corbyn Exodus.

Some seriously fat EU wallets are about to be pilfered, so just how 'soft' a brexit do you think Corbyn could possibly achieve? Or indeed, could Corbyn push for a 2nd referendum?
IMO No. For one reason. If Corbyn the student union socialist warrior, becomes PM, the EU will refuse to rescind A50.

I don't think the general public has any appetite for yet another election.

Only some people are hanging their hats on Corbyn. Personally, after seeing him constantly slagged off by the media for two years, and seeing May's nasty laughter at him in Parliament, I am glad that his party wasn't giving the drubbing that the right wing Press and Tories wanted, but I am quite sure that the only thing he has in common with a Saviour is the initials JC.

Confused. Why would any Labour leave voters write to my remain Labour MP in my 80% remain constituency to ask that the party keeps it's Brexit manifesto? That'll work!

I thought the Tories had this all in hand and were in power. Getting worried they won't be for long?

Grow up ever

For making a valid point? What is the purpose of writing to Labour MP when they are not in powernd not at the Brexit table

Pointless and illogical. But I need to grow up?

ever You clearly haven't read the whole thread or you would have the answer to that point. It's only three pages long, not a mammoth undertaking.

Am answering your OP. Or is that not the point?

I believe it is traditional on MN threads, particularly those of a political or contentious nature, to RTFT before posting. I always think of it as "If you are not interested in reading other people's posts why would I be interested in reading yours".

I could answer your point or I could ask you to read the thread which will answer your point, but I don't expect you are genuinelly interested. Quick summary if you are: sometimes in politics, situations change from one day to another.

Have read it twice. And will repeat. There is no point asking Labour supporters to write to their MPs even if they voted to Leave

I really don't think a call to action from Tory leave supporters will over come the general distaste most Labour supporters have of the current government

My point is valid. The tread is all over the shop

I'm going to post one more reply and then leave it ever.

I'll spell it out for you as perhaps you missed the relevant link. At the time I started the thread, a cross-party consensus on negotiating Brexit was being proposed in some quarters.

Also, I find is slightly odd that, on the one hand you are rubbing your hands in glee on various threads about what you see as the imminent collapse of the government and no doubt, the rise to power of JC, but on the other hand you don't see any point in Labour leave supporters ensuring that their MPs or candidates know their views on Brexit. That doesn't quite all hang together to me, but there you go.

Wanting to march will not collapse the government. Did Saturdays march do that? I therefore am not on other threads trying to do that no matter how you twist it

I said was pointless asking Labour voters to support a Tory call to arms and write to their MPs.re this. And so guess I may know an awful lot of Lefties who voted out...I do

Here is Survations latest poll 're Brexit

mailchi.mp/survation/post-election-poll-for-the-mail-on-sunday-1118637?e=c37db807f4

I find this all very odd too.

You talk about your fears for democracy - I presume they're genuine -
and yet rather than agitate for people to get in touch with Cons MP's and say: Hey, I didn't want the Queens Speech axed, I didn't want an agreement with the DUP, I wanted hard brexit not a watered down version, etc, you want people to get in touch with the party not in power and tell them you didn't agree with everything they wrote in their manifesto?

Is it also a matter of urgency that I write to Lib Dem MP's and tell them I'm not keen on carrying out drug legalisation?