What exactly is a "Soft Brexit"?

[optionalrationale]

Isn't the notion of a "Soft Brexit" just a forlorn hope that "Brexit Somehow Means Remain"?

Which is why the four freedoms are history

people were as honest about "Soft Brexit" as fakenamefornow has been...Soft Brexit= No change**

I said nothing of the sort. Brexit means Brexit remember, soft Brexit, hard Brexit, whatever type of Brexit, we would still be out of the EU which would have been the change you voted for. Even if we ended up with the four freedoms, you would have got exactly what you voted for, the UK out of the EU.

Can you answer a few of questions please op, easy questions, just a yes or no answers.
Is Norway in the EU? y/n
If we have the same deal as Norway, would the UK be in the EU? y/n
If we had a Norway deal, would Leave voters have got what they voted for? y/n

That's it, not hard.

I want to walk away

And we are, so you won

We get to keep our membership contribution of 1.2% of Britain’s annual spending, but walk away from open access to a prosperous market of $16.6 Trillion a year.

The lady protests too much, methinks. Deep down you have doubts Optional, which is why a soft Brexit is playing on your mind. c'est vrai, n'est-ce pas?

Similar type of "magic agreement" already exists for Greenland and other overseas countries and territories Maria.

Magic agreements happen in politics when there is the will and commitment to make them happen e.g. Good Friday Agreement.

If you were doubting the will and commitment for something like this I'd believe you on that. But given e.g. Scotland's stated wish for more autonomy, England's wish for no freedom of movement, many EU states' wish for certainty over status of EU residents in the UK, Northern England's wish to see more economic activity there, UK wide wish for rebalancing of job and housing markets, London/UK wish not to wave goodbye to financial passporting in it's entirety and the wish of many (e.g. German car manufacturers) for as little disruption to free trade as possible, maybe this is a situation that only a magic agreement can save. Nobody gets everything they want, but everyone gets something they want. Something they really, really want.

Think of the freedom of movement situation I describe via Scotland/Ni not as a quagmire, just as an airlock or an anteroom. Perfectly simple concept that is used in many, many applications to make the improbable (e.g. Space travel) not only possible but practicable.

Northern England's wish to see more economic activity ..

Confused why the EU now needs to be involved in a magic agreement to provide Northern England with more economic activity going forwards.

Yes this is a huge problem. The reason for the lack of Northern investment is the fault of successive UK government's- Labour, coalition and Tory. The unequal distribution of wealth across the UK is our fault alone as our Parliament has always controlled 98.8% of its expenditure.

The EU has endeavoured to help the North far more than Westminster has.

Here are just some things the North will lose....

1. 100,000 jobs in the North East are linked to European exports . In 2015, 58 per cent of goods exported from the North East, worth around £7 billion, were to the EU .
2. The North East received £1.1 billion of inward foreign direct investment from EU members over the last 5 years.
3. There were 274,000 inbound visits to the North East from EU tourism in 2014, contributing £90 million to the local economy, and supporting an industry that employs around 117,000 people in the region.Cheaper flights and visa free travel are now in serious jeopardy.

4.The agriculture sector in the North from 2007 to 2013 benefited from over £800 million in payments from the EU’s Common Agricultural policy. This will not be replaced by the UK gov. 5.EU provides huge funding to universities. For example, Newcastle University was leading a consortium of nine centres as part of a £4.6 million project, funded by European grants into liver disease.(Then there's the income from EU students..in 2014–15, on-and off-campus spending by international students and their visitors generated £25.8 billion in gross output in the UK. Roughly 1/3 of this is EU students.The student spending on tuition fee payments and money off-campus on a wide range of goods and services amounted to £5.4bn in 2014­–15. The transport and retail sectors are significant beneficiaries of these students' spending which added £750 million to the UK transport and £690 million to the retail industries.In the North West international students' off-campus expenditure was £458 million in 2014–15, generating a £281 million contribution to local GDP. (As EU students are falling dramatically hopefully China will fill some but not all of the gap.) Our largest Uni (Manchester) has already axed jobs in the faculties of arts, languages, biology, medicine and business.

6.Nearly 1,000 NHS hospital and community health staff in the North East alone are from other EU countries. This includes nearly 450 doctors and over 160 nurses and midwives.
7.In the last round of EU funding - between 2007 and 2013 - the North East received £494m.The UK was also getting £8.3bn from the EU between 2014-2020 to create jobs, help new businesses, and support research and technical development projects. The North East Local Enterprise Partnership was to receive £433m , Tees Valley Local Enterprise Partnership receives £162.5m, making a total of £595.6m.

1. Other projects ...

Portobello Trade Park (Durham) financed with £2.7m in European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) funding. Consett Business Park in Durham received £1.1m in ERDF funding. River Tyne North Bank benefitted from £2.4m in ERDF funding. The Core Science Central (Newcastle) was built with £5.6m in ERDF funding. Sunderland Software Centre received £4.4m in ERDF funding Washington Business Centre (Sunderland) received £3.4m in ERDF funding The University of Sunderland got £1.3m from the EU for internships in local small and medium sized businesses The River Tyne Energy and Innovation Centre has received £1m in ERDF funding The EU gave £7.8m to fund a low carbon enterprise zone for businesses to settle at Swan Hunter Ship Yard in North Tyneside.

But the North of England still voted to leave.....

Hi surfer what's your point? The whole thread is about the difference between one sort of extreme brexit, in which we abandon the four freedoms - based on some sort of purist ideology (a religion if you like) and a negotiated compromise.

'Leave means leave', as your comment reminds everyone, but there is no consensus as to what 'leave' means, especially taking into account the assurances given at the time, and the continuing failure to face up to the economic costs, such as those set out by lonelyplanet.

With characteristic singlemindedness, the OP is exercised by a need to see any compromise 'defined' in some way, but at the same time ignores any questions that focus on the economic costs of an ideological 'brexit' and refuses to be drawn on the average per capita fall in earnings he or she thinks we should each pay to achieve their preferred outcome.

Yes many in North and South voted leave....but down thread Northern England's understandable wish to see more economic activity there is cited as a reason behind a commitment to make a magic new EU trade agreement happen.The thing is we already had one....the benefits from that trade and other income were just unevenly distributed.

The loyalty to our own past politicians, and willingness to falsely attribute woes to the EU is astonishing.

"Sorry Kaija, but could you please explain what exactly that phrase Soft Brexit means?"

It's explained very well in the article - couldn't you read it?

Yesterday 22:21 fakenamefornow
..Soft Brexit= No change

Can you answer a few of questions please op, easy questions, just a yes or no answers.

Is Norway in the EU? y/n No
If we have the same deal as Norway, would the UK be in the EU? y/n No
If we had a Norway deal, would Leave voters have got what they voted for? y/n
No. Because we would still be paying billions into EU Budgets, still have unlimited EU migration and still be subject to every ridiculous EU Regulation

That's it, not hard.
Absolutely agree.

But I thought you had said earlier that you weren't advocating the Norwegian deal . Now it seems you are.. Perhaps you are also one of Timmy's very decisive advisors.

Yesterday 23:08 lonelyplanetmum
Deep down you have doubts Optional, which is why a soft Brexit is playing on your mind. c'est vrai, n'est-ce pas?

Sacre bleu!! Oui..absolument. Vous avez psychoanalysed moi tres bon. Je voudrais admitter le grande erreur qui nous sommes making aujourdhui. JUNKER - il est mon amour, mon hero, mon roi!!!

Where are those voters who had a ballot paper which gave differing options? It's already clear that some had one which said 'Would you like more money for the NHS?'
Others appear to have got one which said 'Shall we boot out Muslims?'
My own just asked whether we should Remain or Leave. I must admit, I didn't turn the paper over to see if there were any supplementary questions. I didn't see the question about whether Cameron should be given the boot, but bonus, I got that anyway.

I think we should be told.

Today 10:42 Kaija

"Sorry Kaija, but could you please explain what exactly that phrase Soft Brexit means?"

It's explained very well in the article - couldn't you read it?

But I am curious as to why you, an overt supporter of "Soft Brexit", still refuse to say what you personally hope it mean.

Let me make it easy for you, again...
Just five questions - each of which can be answered with a Y/N
Y = I support that
N = No I don't support that

1. Continued Unlimited EU migration Y/N
2. Continued compliance with all EU regulations Y/N
3. Continue to pay billions into EU coffers Y/N
4. Membership of the Single Market Y/N
5. Membership of the Customs Union Y/N

optional, Assuming your answer to all the above is 'no' can you tell us how we will benefit from that?

It's all well and good thinking it's clever to tell the EU where to shove it but what will the reality be?

Could you answer my question about why you think it's a good idea to isolate ourselves rather than pull together in the current climate?

Today 11:09 Peregrina
Where are those voters who had a ballot paper which gave differing options?

Totally agree. The choice was a binary one Remain or Leave

We must now leave, which means (and I have no problem being clear on what I now hope for)

• My taxes no longer paying into EU budgets (including the average €850,000 pension for every Eurocrat)
• No longer having unlimited EU migration
• No longer being subject to every ridiculous EU regulation

Can we have some examples of ridiculous EU regulations please?

I'm so hoping the bendy bananas will get an honorary mention.

Totally agree.

Agree to what? I asked who got the papers which had differing Options. Anyway, you have made your point OR. Whether Theresa May will deliver what you want is yet to be seen.

The question was, what was a soft Brexit. For many, including Hannan, who comes across as a bit of a nutter, the answer was the EEA. Richard North, who is a well informed thoughtful Leave supporter, is of the same mind.

Today 11:17 Bearbehind

optional, Assuming your answer to all the above is 'no' can you tell us how we will benefit from that?
If the EU are willing to give access to the single market but agree to not impose unlimited EU migration - I would take that... But that would mean redesigning the EU as trade and cooperation union (much like ASEAN) - which I would be very happy with. But the EU want to be a supranational government - not a trade body.

Could you answer my question about why you think it's a good idea to isolate ourselves rather than pull together in the current climate?

By current climate - I take it you mean the security situation. We should remain active members of NATO and pay our fair share to international security. If only France and Germany would do their bit. I would have been happy to Remain if the EU was set up like ASEAN. I believe in trade and cooperation between nations. I do not believe in supranational, undemocratic, bureaucratic, corrupt executives forcing unlimited numbers of migrants upon us.

Today 11:32 Peregrina

Totally agree. Agree to what?
Totally agree. The choice in the Referendum was a binary one Remain or Leave

If the EU are willing to give access to the single market but agree to not impose unlimited EU migration - I would take that

That doesn't answer the question because that isn't an option - it's still 'cake and eat it'

I asked how we will benefit from Hard Brexit?

Assuming we leave the customs union and single market - what will we gain?

How will the average persons life be better?

What is the point?

Aviation will suffer too with hard Brexit. Has anyone thought of that aspect?

Immediate exit from EU Common Aviation Area, no more EU brokered open skies policy.

I suppose we will survive when bilaterals, reciprocals and so many other deals and agreements are brokered, or indeed UK based airlines may reposition themselves within the EU to continue to avail of the aviation rights they now have.

I love the freedom to go anywhere. Business and economy (stupid) will be affected also.

I know that the effects will be both ways, hence the necessity for more talks, deals and agreements. Worldwide travel under Open Skies will be affected such as the EU/US agreement.

But it will all be fine. Hundreds of new agreements and away we go. Why is this necessary, the cost of all these negotiations will surely increase the costs of air travel.

I just cannot figure out what benefit Brexit will bring, and using aviation as just one example of this. I am shaking my head here in puzzlement. Still waiting for the positive impacts to be explained.

"But I am curious as to why you, an overt supporter of "Soft Brexit", still refuse to say what you personally hope it mean."

Where did I say I was a supporter of soft Brexit? I didn't want any Brexit. Soft or hard is going to be a lot worse than our current arrangements.

To be honest it's marginally more entertaining to watch you repeating these pointless questions than to watch you repeating the pointless replies to all the people who have already given their definitions of soft Brexit. My definition will be no different to those that have gone before, and neither, I am certain, will be your answer.

We must now leave, which means (and I have no problem being clear on what I now hope for)

No it doesn't. I doesn't have to mean any of the things you listed. Your list is nothing more than your own personal wish list. If we ended up with a Norway style deal you would have got exactly what you voted for, the UK out of the EU, you seem unable to understand that your own personal wish list is as meaningless as anyone elses on here. Actually, it's not, I voted Remain, I don't get what I wanted, you will get what you voted for even if it's the softest of soft Brexits possible, you seem unhappy about this though with the insisting that in voting Leave your own personal demands are what will be delivered. Good luck with that!

A version of Brexit that meant yes to all five of your questions would be equally a valid Brexit as one that meant no to all of the questions.

Nothing was well defined.

Brexit means pretty much nothing as yet. We could get the Norway model or the Nigeria model.

We could pretty much carry on as we were or have mass deportations on both sides.

There a good chance a lot of people will be disappointed/have their lives ruined.

You still haven't explained what the positives will be

Just to mention. There will be humungous amounts of OUR money spent in negotations for all this.

The taxpayer will pay for this but will they benefit?