Westministenders: Oh No Not Another One. Thread that is.

[RedToothBrush]

In this edition of Westministers we play a game of ‘Where are they now?’

In June 2016 our screens were subjected to the sight of a number of particularly vocal MPs who participated in debates and stood on soap boxes to talk about the referendum.

The most noticeable of these for Leave were perhaps Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Gisela Stuart, Nigel Farage, Priti Patel and Kate Hoey. For Remain it was David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Corbyn, Ruth Davidson, Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg and Tim Farron.

It is starting to seem that anyone involved in campaigning either for or against Brexit in June 2016 has faced an epic battle for survival. Just how long can they last before being defeated or conceding defeat.

David Cameron’s scalp was the first to go, as he swanned off leaving everyone to clear up his mess.

Boris Johnson, who was keen to stamp his mark and pitch for the leadership by stitching up Cameron, got stitched up by Michael Gove who also lost his own bid for leadership as a result.

Johnson, of course, still lives to fight another day by getting a nice job as Theresa’s whipping boy. He’s occasionally let out by himself, but its Michael Fallon who does the ‘Grown Up Business’. He was said to be one of the last to support an early election. I can’t think why that might be.

Poor old Gove is now confined to a straight-jacket, the back benches where he’s been told to think about what he’s done like a naughty school child and a column in the Times

Andrea Leadsom was sent to a field of cows never to be seen again except to pop up for the odd cameo line shouting about ‘Jam’.

Queen Theresa also dealt with the other Conservative Leader Leave Candidate Mr Liam Fox, by shipping him off to every dodgy corner of the global to get pampered by state hostility.

Stephen Crabb simply crawled back under his rock.

The announcement of the General Election seems to be like the major soap incident episode where half the cast get killed off by a totally unrealistic disaster because their acting contracts weren’t being renewed.

The quitters and abdicators who now have legged it at the sight of a General Election are Gisela ‘Champion of the Brexit Bus’ Stuart and Nigel ‘Too chicken to be defeated for an eighth time and risk losing my nice EU pension’ Farage. George Osborne took the advice of his school teachers and had another career to fall back on when he didn’t become successful in his first choice.

Its rather starting to look like the curse of being a leading Brexiteer is to be made to disappear off the face of the earth or fuck off when the going gets tough. Have you seen Priti Patel lately? Does she even still exist? And Chris Grayling? He was convinced he was going to get chancellor when he supported May in her bid for the leadership.
Instead he got packed off transport and disappeared off the face of the earth much to the annoyance of everyone caught up in the rail strikes.

The only one who is remotely visible seems to be David Davis and is like May’s pet poodle who just tries to please his owner.

It’s almost like the only one still standing or hasn’t been banished is Kate Hoey. And the Lib Dems are trying to work on that one and make her sink beneath the waves, on board her Alan Partridge Titanic once and for all.

Conversely the visible Remainers seem to be – on the face of it - fairing rather better at the moment.

Sadiq Khan is hugely popular and actually does his job rather than fannying about on zip wires. Ruth Davidson is also well respected and apparently has saved Priti Patel’s job from abolition. If the rumours are to be believed bored with scrapping with Nicola, she might be lining herself up for ‘Big Things’ in Westminister. Cameron’s one time love interest, Nick Clegg hasn’t shaken the tarnish of the coalition but he is enjoying a new reputation as the Brexit Soothsayer and some people actually know who Tim Farron is now, which is progress. Nicola Sturgeon is of course riding high and seems to be a permanent thorn in Theresa’s side.

Jeremy ‘I’m a Remainer, honest comrades’ Corbyn is the one who seems to be something of a walking disaster area yet is also thriving with it like a zombie who just keeps going regardless of what you throw at him.

And then of course there is Queen Theresa. The Remainer. Who has crushed everyone in her party. Not just the saboteurs. Even her supposed ally Hammond and BBF Rudd have been thrown under the bus at her wimb when its suited May personally.

The General Election now sets a new scene and opportunity for new characters to emerge. Now the rats have left the ship or been put in their place.

Will May set course to the left or to the right or simply plow on like a bull in a china shop?

Anyway I’m now looking forward to the shocking soap opera moment where your favourite hero or villain gets killed off in a twist you didn’t see coming. Role on June 8th. If only to get pass the upcoming horror of the next six weeks.

LH why do ynot u think women would fare differently in that sort of environment?

I fully agree that the National SErvice has done A LOT re social mobility as well as expanding horizons. Young people who had never gone out of their little patch suddenly started to discover new horizons. They had the opportunity to learn a skill, to read, to write. All of the things that some people still desperately need nowdays. Men AND women.

Where, IMO, it is much more of a waste of time is for people who are well educated already. But then they get to actually mix with other people and to experience things that they would have had no idea about otherwise. A friend of mine (in France) did his military service during the war in Bosnia. He choose to go there (with the education he had he could have chosen something less dangerous TBH) and it certainly gave him a breath of experience that he wouldn't have had otherwise.
I'm sure that this would have been the same for a woman

Today I've just discovered a new newspaper, The New European, ww.theneweuropean.co.uk.

I thought I would share the quote on his front page. I'm sure you will all get it
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When an entire government suffers from a delusion, it is called Brexit

Hi, long term lurker, sorry for butting in but I'm not so sure Skinner's Bolsover seat is that safe for labour
2015 results
LAB 22,542
CON 10,764
UKIP 9,228
LD 1,464
if the labour vote falls and those ukip votes go tory this could totally go blue, admittedly a big swing but not out of the question.

I wasn't suggesting they couldn't fare in such a situation. But enforced barracking, as opposed to elected careers are two different things.

Women in the military at the moment are volunteers, yes, but they still live in the exact same conditions as the men. They do the exact same training as the men. They have access to the exact same roles as the men.

Basic training is mixed sex & you live in enforced barrack conditions and get screamed at for the most part of it.

Women manage just fine.

The forces are a huge leveller - on basic training you are all exactly the same - cultural/social/economic capital means fuck all and you succeed as a team, not as individuals.

woman I agree and find it at odds with the latest poll saying that TM has the highest support than all PM before her.

What does it say? That people are unhappy are starting to really get it but ether don't dare saying it to anyone or that they can't see any other alternative???

Women got called up during the last war
Militarily ?

Yes, my MIL got her call up papers and avoided it by bringing her wedding forward. They didn't call up married women.

I can't ask her for more details because she's passed away, but DM worked in the office of a steel works, and they applied to keep her from being called up. She volunteered to work on the factory floor, if necessary, to help her case, although that turned out not to be necessary. It wasn't straight away, more like 1944 from what I recall DM saying. This would fit because MIL married in 1944.

Skinner was pretty full-on Leave though. He is one of the MPs who does represent his constituents and, I'd think (??), would be seen as a person before party candidate. But who knows.

I agree and find it at odds with the latest poll saying that TM has the highest support than all PM before her.

The question they asked was who would make the most capable PM out of the two main party leaders. There is a pretty obvious explanation as to why May would get a record score on that poll cough Corbyn cough without necessarily being more popular than previous PMs. As always you have to look behind the spin.

Looking at the records for Skinner, his vote has been pretty consistent over the years. The LibDem vote collapsed in 2015, but I don't imagine they went to UKIP. I imagine that Labour picked up some one time Lib Dems, and some Labour went off to UKIP. So who knows now?

So WEP are standing against Labour in 4 GE constituencies. Including Kate Hoey in Vaux. Already been pointed out on twitter they were neutral in the EU ref, although their Vauxhall candidate was personally pro-remain. Anyone with a clue as to their election strategy, answers on a postcard...

twitter.com/Harini_Iyengar/status/857830421945606144

Also, this I saw earlier. It feels like big news but I guess it is sensible planning and (potentially) a nice clear message from the EU that they know what they are doing, sometimes most of the chuffing time, weeps

European leaders are preparing to recognise the potential for a “united Ireland” within the EU, confirming that Northern Ireland would seamlessly rejoin the bloc after Brexit in the event of a vote for Irish reunification.

In a step that may stoke concerns in Britain that Brexit could hasten the fragmentation of the UK, diplomats are planning to ask leaders of the EU’s 27 post-Brexit member countries to endorse the idea in a summit on Saturday.

www.ft.com/content/f4c720b0-2b63-11e7-bc4b-5528796fe35c

Saw that Anlaf and wondering how the DUP will react. . An orange lodge march on the EU would be a laugh.

On the garden bridge, I am a passionate gardener fuming at May calling an election when I need to get my allotment planted up so my first reaction was to like the idea, to think that it could be something really special and an asset to London. However it pretty quickly became evident that this was going to be not so much a garden and more a corporate hospitality venue, chances of public and tourist access were likely to be very slim, and it rapidly became an unpopular idea outside a narrow group of what you might call the metropolitan elite (I suspect metropolitan elite is always going to be some "other', even Boris would never get that he actually is part of "it", whatever it is. ). Anyway the metropolitan elite appears to have shrunk or is gearing up to leave the country so finally it has sunk under the weight of it's own pomposity / arrogance.

That's a pretty good outcome for NI though whatever way a person there is inclined, isn't it?

It means that whether or not NI stays as part of the union re Brexit, any future vote that may decide to split from UK means they have a definite, solid option in a more seamless reunification (as part of the EU).

(Unless I'm completely getting the wrong end of the stick!)

Orange lodge Brussels tour musn't laugh serious

I guess it is a similar situation to Scotland though, where the choice isn't any longer a straight in/out of the UK, but is now:

1. In UK, probably leave EU, good chance of chaotic brexit, Westminster government shouts "walkies" to the devolved governments*
2. Out of UK, probably back in EU

I am Scottish (in England) and I do feel the government is heavily weighting the attractiveness of option 2 through sheer incompetence , and I'd be very sad to lose Scotland or NI from the UK as a result of the govt's handling of Brexit

*nicked this off twitter

(I am aware btw that there is never a truly straight choice in a referendum)

And Anlaf, funny too that Irish unification could happen under GDR clause:

"The inclusion of the text is a victory for the Irish government, which had pressed for the inclusion of a “GDR clause”, a reference to the integration of the former east German state into the European Community after the fall of the Berlin wall".

If east Germany managed to free itself from the shackles of a totalitarian regime, and gain integration in the EU, maybe we remainers could plea political asylum and tag along with NI.

Maybe Sturgeon might be able to use the GDR clause too.

My Aunt was in the Land Army. This is a BBC bit about WW2 female conscription in the UK. I don't think military or barrack conditions are necessary to have the desired effect of broadening social horizons.

www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6652055.shtml

By 1942 all male British subjects between 18 and 51 years old and all females 20 to 30 years old resident in Britain were liable to be called up, with some exemptions
From wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom

I lived in barracks for many years - teaches you how to get on with people for sure.

Everyone I know who did National Service looks back on it with a positivity that cannot just be put down to rose tinted nostalgia. Some travelled e.g. to Burma, some learned a skill e.g. as aircraft mechanics. As others have said minds were opened. Mind you that is of course the generation who have voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, so not that opened....

If those who travelled through National Service retained, or acquired, a sense of superiority, because they only went to places that had been parts of the Empire or were British protectorates, or to Germany, which had been defeated relatively recently... Well, that might explain some of the voting patterns.

Patty Yes, in Burma most of the travellers from the UK are either backpackers or octogenarian plus veterans or people with links to Burma through Empire (you get special group travel deals including an accompanying doctor) so, given their current political situation they welcome being able to talk about their appreciation of the benefits of democracy and being open to the world given their puzzlement at all the "taking back control" "regaining sovereignty" rhetoric from older travellers.

Irish unification could happen under GDR clause:

Months ago, on one of these threads, I posted that for NI/RoI there was a precedent in the way East Germany had been absorbed into the EU. I was told off by a Leaver - there was no comparison with the NI situation.
Well, it seems, I wasn't that far off the mark.

I wish I could predict what the situation will be in 2020-2025.

This "GDR clause" seems to be causing fury to some Brexiters, e.g. the Ultras in the Guardian Comments section

Not sure why this is a shock - maybe naively I'd assumed that if there were a United Ireland, it would remain within the EU.
Precisely because of the GDR precedent.
Also, when Greenland left the EU, Denmark wasn't expelled or penalized on any way

What would be the alternative for the EU - to expel the RoI if they allowed NI to rejoin them ?

NI is a totally different case even to Scotland which hasn't been part of another DU member country.

Ireland was united for many years and was only artificiallly split when Britain - disgracefully - didn't accept the democratic vote by the Irish people, but instead conspired with loyalist paramilitaries to "gerrymander with violence"