Were there any LD supporters who voted Leave?

[optionalrationale]

I am a "natural" Labour supporter and former party member. I supported Labour Leave in the EU Ref and will be voting Conservative for the first time in my life in the GE. I wondered if there were any LD Leavers. I know this might be rare but I wondered if there were any at all. Or is LD Leaver an impossible combination.

Sorry, you still haven't addressed the demolition of the welfare state and the propagation of social inequality. How do you think voting Tory will stop this and how does this fit with you being a "natural" labour voter.

I would suggest you are not a natural labour voter but are a centre-right swing voter. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

What would you suggest as an alternative? Brexit kinda sorta might mean a version of Brexit that will please neither Remainers nor Leavers
optional - you seem to think slogans are necessary. Each to his own, but I would prefer politicians to forego meaningless slogans and empty soundbites in favour of considered discourse and debate. Slogans might be appealing to the kind of voter who has a limited attention span or is incapable of thinking of the bigger picture and wants something to parrot, but when you scratch the surface they're usually meaningless.

Bolshy
I was a Labour member and activist for over 25 year.

I don't believe that the best way to protect the welfare state and tackle inequality is for the Labour party to cast itself into oblivion for two decades. This is what it did in the 1970's. I don't see the current incarnation getting anywhere near actually being able to do something about the worthy causes you mention until the early 2030's. Where will the NHS be then?

BrexshitmeansBrexshit
"Slogans might be appealing to the kind of voter who has a limited attention span or is incapable of thinking of the bigger picture and wants something to parrot, but when you scratch the surface they're usually meaningless."

Sorry posted too soon. But wouldn't you agree that the Timmy Farren or who ever rallies the Remain vote needs to have an answer to the question

The Prime Minister has said Brexit means Brexit. Does it?

BrexshitMeansBrexshit
"optional - you seem to think slogans are necessary."

I supported and prayed for a Clinton victory in the US election but I can't remember what she was standing for at all.

Trump however. ..."Make America Great Again"

Everyone can remember it. Democracy's soft underbelly means that pithy, memorable punchy slogans will always beat Look it's complicated and clearly, you (as someone who lives in a provincial small town and who is clearly not as clever as wot I am), will never really understand the subtly nuanced case that i can't qute articulate right now. But anyway. I am better and brighter than you, and FURTHERMORE you are clearly a RACIST! !!!

Hard to get that on a baseball cap

So much I agree with in this thread (and even the people I disagree with are making very good points) impossible to know where to start so just this:

I'm just going to hunker down, save as much money as I can before it all goes tits up and try and get my kids to leave as soon as they are able.

Have told my daughter to work as hard as she can at her Language GCSE and then get out. I also got a big reaction to a Tweet I posted saying that after the election I was going to concentrate on planning my move to Scotland -clearly lots of people thinking the same. If it's true that Scotland really does need immigrants NS could do worse than launch a big publicity campaign - suspect she could lure quite a few skilled people up there.

The one thing this election has helped convince me of is that we desperately need to restore some sort of strength to local government. We are now a country with very deep divisions; devolving power at a more regional level would ease some of those tensions by allowing people to at least influence events locally.

Soooo, you want to protect the NHS by voting for the tories who will dismantle it? That makes no logical sense. Labour might destroy it by neglect but the tories will actively destroy it. Which do you think will be quicker? Do you think there will be anything salvageable once labour gain power? Look what the tories have done in two short years! It's already on it's knees- waiting periods have risen dramatically, anything minor shunted off the boards. Don't even get me started on the mess that is Andrew Lansley and his utterly stupid reforms which have upended the funding system.
Same goes for education and the wrecking ball that was Gove. There will be a total meltdown once the exam results come out in summer (post election, of course ). Friend works at a school in a very disadvantaged area and the cuts and Goves reforms have already had a significant impact on outcomes for their pupils. Again, these reforms disadvantage the poorest in society.

But yeah, go ahead and support all of that because labour are a bit of a mess Just don't assume that any of it will be recoverable when labour are to your liking.

There are other parties, you know. It's not a binary choice. Oh, you're a brexiter though, so it's destroy the country at any cost for your pet project. Never mind that the people you're doing this for are the real Brexit voters- the petty minded, small town people of semi-rural England that dont like change and view anything "other" with suspicion. I grew up in a leave area exactly like that. Leafy, pleasant, definitely not deprived. Very, very small minded, very white yet an irrational fear of non-existent immigrants (this was in the 90s!). To be different in anyway was a sin.
You can tell yourself that Brexit is for the needy and the deprived areas of the north but it's a complete nonsense. It will destroy the few industries that have survived up here and make life worse for most people. Those semi-rural little englanders will be pleased the polish people (who don't actually live in their areas) are gone though.

Honestly, I just give up fighting this shit. This country is utterly screwed now, take it, do what you want with it but don't be surprised when it all ends in tears. I can't be arsed to argue anymore.

Everyone can remember it. Democracy's soft underbelly means that pithy, memorable punchy slogans will always beat Look it's complicated and clearly, you (as someone who lives in a provincial small town and who is clearly not as clever as wot I am), will never really understand the subtly nuanced case that i can't qute articulate right now. But anyway. I am better and brighter than you, and FURTHERMORE you are clearly a RACIST! !!!

The threads you start on Brexit-related stuff always seem to take a bit of a turn, don't they? Probably because of this sort of goady nonsense^^.

I have a growing respect for TM

Interesting because I'm beginning to dislike her more than I did Mrs T. She strikes me as petty minded, liable to hold grudges and unable to see much beyond her own prejudices. I liked her speech when she took over but it soon became clear that her idea of social justice is letting a few rise and the rest can basically go hang and her idea of uniting the country is "if you don't agree with me then shut up". I think her seeming refusal to be questioned or give us any details on her policies (not just Brexit where I understand there's a limit on what she can say about her negotiating position) but on domestic issues as well is appalling. She won't tell us what her policies are but with her massive majority will feel free to impose them on us because "it's the will of the people".

Agree with Bolshybookworm 100%

I agree with HPFA. As an example, she talks about the 'Just About Managing', not that she has actually done anything for them.

What about those who aren't managing? How many people have noticed the increase in the homeless sleeping in doorways lately (just like it used to be during the late 80s/early 90s)? What is her housing policy? (Should I post up a picture of a blank sheet of paper?)

As someone who parades her Christianity (or religiosity) at every turn, she should be ashamed to be PM of a country, still wealthy in world terms, which can't or won't house its population. And let's not use the lazy excuse and blame the immigrants - they weren't the cause of the housing crisis in the early 90s and they aren't now.

I am a lib Dem member who voted and still would leave. I am a bit unsure who to vote for now

I guess it depends on whether you'd be happy with a softer Brexit fox. I don't think a vote for the lib dems would overturn Brexit, but it might temper the hard right course of the tories. I guess you need to weigh up your core values and what's most important to you. I think we're stuck on Brexit regardless of which party ends up in power (and it's likely to be Tory anyway). Vote on local issues if that is easier. That's basically what I'm doing (I don't have much choice as our current mp is awful).

foxrun May doesn't need your vote, so if I were in your position I would spoil my ballot paper.

optional
...so your logic is that although policies are better than slogans, other people need slogans, so you wont vote for a party without a good one?
...And that to avoid the Labour party being cast out into the wilderness, you are going to vote Conservative? Not for any other party either - the only path to saving the Labour party is voting for the most right wing Conservative party of the last few decades?

Also, everything Bolshy said!

foxrun I guess if you're an LD leaver you'd be happy with a softish Brexit? So I think you can still vote LD if you wish to.

Certainly won't be voting for May. I never felt I had any ownership on what brexit would look like, that is a decision to be made by all, not just those who voted leave. We were given a black or white choice, when we need a shade of gray. I would be worried about voting lim dem with the focused on changing the decision, not influencing it in the right direction because to me that is a waste of time when there is much more important things going on in the world. I will probably look local and make my decision there.

Today 10:39 squishysquirmy

"optional
...so your logic is that although policies are better than slogans, other people need slogans, so you wont vote for a party without a good one?
...And that to avoid the Labour party being cast out into the wilderness, you are going to vote Conservative? Not for any other party either - the only path to saving the Labour party is voting for the most right wing Conservative party of the last few decades? confused

Also, everything Bolshy said"

I tried my utmost to get an electable leader of the Labour party. I reluctantly resigned , my membership when it was clear he was going to hold on to the leadership in the face of any internal challenges. By voting for Labour now (in an election they have no hope of winning) actually increases the likelihood of him staying leader and taking the party I used to love even further into oblivion and for longer.

I couldn't ever vote LibDem

foxrun

"I am a lib Dem member who voted and still would leave. I am a bit unsure who to vote for now"

Thanks for posting... I wondered if there were any (LD Leavers).

The top chart on page 8 of the latest Ashcroft poll shows a fair proportion of leave voting LibDems

lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ALL-CHANGE-Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-April-2017.pdf

And the first Ashcroft poll gives a figure of 30% Lib Dems voting leave. Interesting isn't it?

lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Very interesting Indeed. I wonder how they felt being characterised as fascist

I wish I knew more people IRL like you fox, I would feel a lot more reassured. I think a lot of us on both sides are searching for shades of grey at the moment, but only the extremes are having their voices heard.

I think to respond to people who have always voted Labour/Green but are going to vote Tory at the GE that they must not really have been core Labour supporters is trying to find a simple explanation for what is a very complicated political phenomenon. If suddenly a proportion of people who have never considered voting other than Labour/Green are going to do something they would have thought unthinkable a few years ago in voting Tory, it seems less likely that they have never really been left wing, and more likely that there is something else going on. Obvs Brexit is a big factor, but I think it is more complicated than that.