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Brexit
Original poster

What are people's thoughts so far?

91 replies

Bearbehind · 16/04/2017 18:52

From where I'm standing it's a fucking shambles. So far TM has tried

  • threatening to turn the UK into a tax haven

then

  • threatening to walk away with no deal if necessary

Then

  • withdrawing security co-operation

Now

  • Telling the country we 'must unite' for apparently no other reason than she's told us to

As far as I can see this has all gone down like a cup of cold sick.

The EU have, quite rightly IMO, said 'piss off we're going to look after ourselves first even if it costs us in the short term'.

So who thinks things are going well so far?

OP posts:
SilverLeafClover · 17/04/2017 13:33

Will Cameron be judged more harshly than Blair in 20, 30 years' time?

twofingerstoEverything · 17/04/2017 13:40

Saying its all gone to shit because there is no good news is just trolling because there couldn't be any news, it to early.
What a strange perception of the situation. If it's 'too early' for news, we wouldn't have had bad news either, would we? eg. EU student applications down, record numbers of EU NHS health staff quitting, tanking pound, rising food prices, , etc?
It's more likely that you can't report any good news because there isn't any.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/04/2017 14:33

I don't understand why we are all expected to get behind Brexit now. In a general election if you vote for party x but party y wins nobody expects you to suddenly switch allegiance to party y. Part of a healthy functioning democracy is alternative arguments and holding the government to account. Brexit is no different.

Surely the biggest "event" since the referendum has been the fall in the pound. This has led to an increase in food prices. Not an issue for wealthy leave voters on MN but Brexit was supposed to help the "left behind" and marginalised communities. Wonder how poorer leave voters feel about higher grocery bills?

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 14:44

Saying its all gone to shit because there is no good news is just trolling because there couldn't be any news, it to early. (sic)

OTOH

  • pound has tanked
  • our Foreign Sec is a laughing stock
  • EU citizens resident for decades are getting refused PR
  • other EU citizens have been victims of hate crime
  • EMA and EBA are going, so are some financial services operations
  • prices are rising
  • indyref2
  • no one has a clue what to do about Northern Ireland and Gibraltar
  • no one has a clue what will happen to sea freight or air traffic
  • May has rolled back rather hastily on "no deal better than a bad deal"
  • she has also admitted that FoM won't be ending in April 2019.

Other than that, I would say it's all going swimmingly.

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 14:49

Oh, and I forgot Eurarom and the european space programme. Never mind - so did the government and the leave campaign ;)

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 14:50

That should read Euratom

Dannythechampion · 17/04/2017 15:01

I think it look like a mess so far.

The UK government clearly have a mandate to leave the EU, but the fact that its being hijacked by the ultra neo liberal right wing of the Tory party ( as many said was the intention prior) and to be forced through at any cost is disturbing.

The articles today where people are thinking we might get to keep the two EU agencies we have are deluded, these things were warned of well in advance.

The other thing that needs addressing with the pharmaceutical industry is that by losing the EU regulator, we lack our own regulatory body and that this will take time to set up. This could be a massive cost to the pharma industry here.

Agree with PP when they say that the only good thing the leave camp can report is the economy not tanking, well, yet. Kicking the declaration of art 50 into the long grass in June definitely bought us some time with the economy.

Peregrina · 17/04/2017 15:20

Euratom is a completely different treaty, so why May dragged it into the discussion is virtually beyond me, except that I think that Euratom would look to the ECJ to resolve any disputes. Whether they ever have done, I don't know. It just seemed a completely stupid move. Anything to do with the EU = bad.

That being so, I wish May would tell the Express to put a sock in it with their whines about EU agencies relocating. That's what you wanted people to vote for, so 'suck it up'.

SapphireStrange · 17/04/2017 15:22

My thoughts are that it's going exactly as I thought it would: a fucking shambles.

What TM is doing isn't negotiating; it's threatening and blustering and then having to row back.

The news is all gloomy: the massive drop in NHS and student applications; the likely loss of the banking and medicine agencies; the rising costs of food and living.

It's just getting clearer and clearer that the clowns in government hadn't thought about (or, more sinisterly, didn't care?) ANY of the implications of leaving, from infrastructure at ports to new computer systems needed to the Irish border...

The only decent thing that might come out of it is TM might either jump or be pushed. But of course even that just leaves a vacuum, with any number of Tory twats ready to fill it.

Dannythechampion · 17/04/2017 15:23

The whines about the EU agencies leaving is funny though, as are some of the points on here regarding "project fear" an awful lot of which seems to be coming true.

Who will get the blame in the end? I reckon it'll be the wicked EU.

SapphireStrange · 17/04/2017 15:25

Who will get the blame in the end? I reckon it'll be the wicked EU.

Of course it will. Whether we're in it or out of it, we seem to have to blame it for everything!

user1491148352 · 17/04/2017 15:35

It's wonderful!

We are TAKING BACK CONTROL.
We are getting an extra £350 million a day for the NHS.
We are being led by Boris, David Davis and that guy who had to resign because of his dodgy special advisor.

What's not to like?

AddToBasket · 17/04/2017 15:35

Too many posters on this thread clearly have no idea what negotiation entails.

The concern is that we don't have the manpower.

And, it is not 'low expectations' to congratulate the government on not screwing up so far. It has been a fucking mine field and we are still a fast growing economy with high employment. No one is saying life is perfect, but this is a MASSIVE achievement.

ClimbingTheSpiderNet · 17/04/2017 15:36

My 2 p worth. May will resign within 12 months. Hard Brexit is steered by Russian and or US interests. Government is puppet of Murdoch and Daily Mail. Hard Brexit and Euratom debacle is against our national interest. We have been played. Sad

TheElementsSong · 17/04/2017 15:39

The whines about the EU agencies leaving is funny though

I have to say I had a little giggle about the Express article and also what Davis said.

Dannythechampion · 17/04/2017 15:41

"No one is saying life is perfect, but this is a MASSIVE achievement."

All achieved while still attaining full EU membership, this is not because or in spite of Brexit happening, the long term is going to be different.

Mistigri · 17/04/2017 15:46

And, it is not 'low expectations' to congratulate the government on not screwing up so far. It has been a fucking mine field

I would not expect a competent government to step into a minefield with no plan, no map and no minesweepers. Would you?

In business, you avoid screwing up (most of the time) by Having A Plan. This government not only doesn't have a plan, it doesn't have a clue.

Peregrina · 17/04/2017 15:48

No one is saying life is perfect, but this is a MASSIVE achievement.

Sorry, what's a MASSIVE achievement? Food prices going up? Insecure employment? An unresolved housing crisis? Cuts in education funding? The NHS on its knees? All bar the first, these are nothing to do with Brexit, but because Brexit is taking up so much effort (for so little to show for it so far), those areas which need attention are not getting it.

woman12345 · 17/04/2017 15:49

ClimbingTheSpiderNet I agree

Peregrina · 17/04/2017 15:55

My 2 p worth. May will resign within 12 months.

It's possible, certainly. She is out of her depth and doesn't enjoy the best of health, which I think is probably necessary for that job. Any thoughts as to who might replace her? I wanted to get rid of Cameron, never thinking that we could get someone worse. I don't think BoJo would throw his hat into the ring for PM unless he knew things were going swimmingly, which won't be for some time. He will want to come in when the dust has settled - but he might be an old man then.

Dannythechampion · 17/04/2017 16:09

I don't think BoJo ever really thought leave would win.

I think his game was to run the leave campaign and be a heroic failure, whilst also charming the blue rinse brigade and the Right wing of the party. Then when Cameron stepped down he'd have run against Osborne.

TheNumberfaker · 17/04/2017 16:12

My thoughts: it's a bloody mess. Every single MP who voted for the referendum to be held in the first place should hang their head in shame.

The logical outcome of the referendum should have been, "Hey, country, this is too close to call, let's take the outcome of the advisory referendum as a shout out to look into the whole thing PROPERLY. We'll cost out the different options fully, along with looking into how we can 'improve' our existing situation relating to immigration control, national spending on the NHS, education, deprived areas etc."

I'm still utterly in shock that there have been so few MPs/peers who have stood up for the interests of the entire country.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 17/04/2017 16:23

Too many posters on this thread clearly have no idea what negotiation entails.

There certainly seem to be an awful lot of people who don't seem to understand how negiotiations works Addtobasket but they're not who you are referring to.

Maybe you could explain how you think we are in a position to 'negotiate' with regards to EBA and EMA?

They are EU agencies- If we are no longer in the EU we cannot keep them.

Why would we ever think we would?

The EU will decide where they move to, it is not our decision, and there's no shortage of cities/ countries lining up to take our place.

You can only 'negotiate' with something you have and others want.

We don't 'have' anything to bargain with in this situation.

Why do you think we do?

OP posts:
Dannythechampion · 17/04/2017 16:25

I agree about people not having any idea about negotiation, sadly it seems to be those in government who keep portraying it as a poker game, rather than a deal which will be mutually beneficial.

ZaziesPaws · 17/04/2017 16:29

That's just doves and hawks though Danny. The fact is, in any international negotiation, there are both. It's naive to think that because, in your view, one is "right", that should be the only method in play. There will be both.