Westminstenders: And so it begins

[RedToothBrush]

Promises made that can not be kept.

We have already fallen at the first stumbling block: the desire for parallel talks on exit and future relationship that May wanted has been rejected. Not that this is a surprise seeing as we were told this.

This isn't two years of negotiations for a good deal. Forget any suggestions that it is. It's two years of damage limitation and domestic pr.

For both the UK and EU.

I do believe that May's attitude - which seemed to be more friendly in her speech and letter yesterday - has burnt all our bridges.

This talk of the world needing the EU's 'liberal democracy' isn't aimed at the EU though. Her use of the words that produced uproar in the HoC yesterday was deliberate. Why use it? It was always going to produce a reaction.

When May says she will have a consensus at home to achieve this goal one of two things must happen: to prove just how much we need the EU to make a political reversal possible at the expense of her head or to vilify the EU to a point that Remainers suddenly change their mind.

To get a good deal for the UK she can not satisfy her hard line Brexiteers. It is impossible purely because to do otherwise is like breaking the laws of physics. Trade is done mostly with who you are closest too. This is the inescapable truth. We are leaving the EU but not Europe as keeps being pointed out.

If we want to trade we have to accept EU regulations. If we do not, we do not trade. Rules we can now no longer influence by must obey.

We can not reduce immigration. We have had control of non-Eu immigration and that is not going down due to skills shortages. To combat this schools are getting less money.

In terms of sovereignty and British parliament we just gave that away. The 'Great' Repeal Act is a power grab by the executive. It seems to give the powers of the monarch to Mrs May and take them away from parliamentary scrutiny. At the same time we are forced to become beholden to Trump's America. A man who screws people for a living and has not a shred of honour.

Using security as our bargaining chip misses the obvious. If we do not cooperate we endanger Brits abroad and ourselves domestically. Are we really prepared to stop?

The opportunities of Brexit Britain are bleak. This will be normalised.

Good luck folks. We are gonna need it.

pretty I searched out the official press release specially to avoid being accused of spinning. Just goes to show it's all in the nuance

FWIW I agree with Prof C on this but I disagree with him on what the PLP should do with its constituency vs supporter Brexit problem.

I agree with Lurking that Scotland has very old ties with the continent, not just France and Italy but of course Scandinavian ties, and with the Dutch and Germans. . A seafaring nation!
I think also a big difference between NS and TM, when it comes to dealing with those polling results, is that NS addresses what immigrants bring to the country and how Scotland needs them.

Oops crosspost with MO4D! I studied it too

Howabout is right - my 16 year old will cancel her teenager out

He's been working on his school friends though: one is a die-hard Tory so beyond redemption (who is off to Uni this year to study Computing Science) but he says he's persuaded others who were more on the fence to support independence.

When dh and I were canvassing in the run up to Indyref, we came across Poles and other Eastern Europeans who'd been told by Better Together campaigners ahead of us that they'd be "sent home immediately" if they voted Yes , and that was why they were going to vote No.

I have an inkling that they'd vote differently this time

Fool me once shame on you;
Fool me twice ....

More Brexit goodness ...

(excerpt)

...
On the one hand, David Davis’s leaked letter to Mark Durcan of the SDLP speculated on the eventuality of a Northern Irish vote to become part of a united Ireland and how this would have to be respected by the UK government under the terms of the Good Friday agreement, throwing in for good measure that such an eventuality would make it easy for Northern Ireland to remain part of the EU as it would then be part of a remaining EU country. One must wonder what the Tories’ DUP allies made of these musings by the cavalier Brexit minister.

(contd)

and a less hysterical (i.e. non-UK view)

www.cbc.ca/news/world/brexit-northern-ireland-don-duncan-1.4045368

I'm beginning to see why Brexit promises were written on side of a bus.

It was an indication of the vehicle of choice to throw Scotland and NI under ...

Howabout - I agree, it's all the nuance. And polling companies and those that commission the polls often usually have their own agendas (agendae? ) and points to prove. They usually want then to prove a particular point and may well suppress them if they don't

It's the private focus groups that are probably the more interesting and relevant - but they're for interval consumption - but that can't always be controlled

It's a bit like the focus groups that have supposedly discovered that "Brexit" as a term is no longer going down well and that "a new and close economic partnership" or some such flannel should be used instead. Shame no-one has told Tusk, Barnier and the E27 . Brexit, Brexit, Brexit.

mother there are less than 200k EU Nationals living in Scotland. For historic, non-EU reasons 88k are Polish and 16k are Irish. The other less than 100k are a mixture of nationalities who truly are European in the EU FoM sense. That is, I think, a slightly different position from the 3 million or so living in rUK but it is open to interpretation.

My friends and relatives in the Southof England regularly channel hop and consider buying for home improvement or to "restock the wine cellar". They are also more likely to hop on the Eurostar. Some live in the UK and work in the rEU and vice versa. There is much less of that going on in Scotland afaik.

OTOH most people I know in Scotland have relatives in US, Asia, Australasia and / or Africa and are just as likely to get on a plane there as to Europe. Because of oil there are also comparatively high levels of links with ME for work and leisure.

That makes her [May] a dishonourable foe and people who may have to fight her on that will have no respect for her (as we are starting to see).

This is exactly how I feel. It's all to do with appeasing the extreme right wing of the Tory party. I, with 48% of others, am one of the unfortunates caught in the crossfire, but I don't see any reason to help May and her stooges out. My aim is to get out of the line of fire and, if I can, help the injured.

pretty it is really interesting to hear how your DS and his mates are thinking. Depending on the timing my DD2 will also probably be on the cancelling side. Her most politically minded friend is pro Independence and pro Brexit so the jury is out on where he will end up. My 2 still have plenty of time to switch sides in teenage rebellion.

I think widening the franchise to 16 has been very positive in getting younger adults engaged in politics before the self absorption of the late teens / early 20s takes over.

Peregrina it is far easier for the Tories to remove their leader than the Labour party can

The Tories can be brutal too - like feeding time at the zoo. May will I am sure get what she deserves....from within her own party.

It would be a beautiful irony if Britain's Brexit deal pleases everyone but the people who did the most to bring Brexit about
www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/how-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-could-please-everyone-leave-elite
What you said peregrina and poorboy.

Complete opposite mother. The S Englanders go Eurocamping for a week as I am told it is cheaper than the UK while the Scots go off to the eg US for a week to visit family. Scots also may choose further afield than Europe as they like guaranteed sunshine if they are going to the trouble of getting on a plane.

it is far easier for the Tories to remove their leader than the Labour party can

Sir Anthony Beaumont Dark, anybody ?

Incidentally, for students of the paranoid I notice that Sir ABDs wikipedia page as of now makes no mention of his brief equine career. Presumably it's edited by neighsayers ?

And this one too:
Hardline Conservative Eurosceptics will attack the Prime Minister's desire to reach a mutual agreement with the EU, but they need the cold shower of realism that is coming:
www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-article-50-letter-triggered-theresa-may-britain-uk-eu-theresa-may-a7659921.html

The Tories can be brutal too - like feeding time at the zoo

Worse - like a gladiatorial contest, or Christians being thrown to the lions.

As always on these matters mother we may have to agree to disagree

Interesting views on Sadhiq Khan. Out polling all the party leaders. However, I think after Boris a sock puppet would have polled better as Mayor. But still he is held in higher regard than Corbyn (not hard - see sock puppet) and May

Astonishingly, half of Conservatives think Mr Khan is doing well, along with majorities of young and old, different social classes and inner and outer Londoners.

That is interesting BUT as we have seen with Brexit London doesn't reflect the rest of the country - damn them liberal elites/working class/under class....