Brexit Arms special - the fingers on the trigger!

[surferjet]

Well here we are, almost 9 months on from the referendum & A50 is finally set to be triggered this month.
We've had petitions, marches, tantrums & tears, from the hardcore remainers desperately trying to stop the will of the people, but they can't.

So let's get the champagne out of the cellar ready & waiting - this is the last Brexit Arms thread so let's celebrate!
🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾

Many of these poorer people voted leave because they can't get work due to F.O.M & Eastern Europeans coming over here & taking all the lower paid jobs. That is a fact. If they weren't here it would be easier to get a job.

I wonder then, why businesses and the farming community are so worried about replacing foreign workers?

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/pret-a-manger-faces-staffing-crisis-because-of-brexit-a3485096.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/04/british-farmers-will-have-access-migrant-workers-brexit-andrea/

And in your opinion you think a leave vote demonstrates a staggering disregard for their own wellbeing but you have no evidence to support that opinion, nor have you any evidence that their wellbeing might be at risk at all.

Poorer Brexit voters have already damaged their wellbeing through higher food and petrol prices due to drop in pound.

drwitch but what does this mean- lower tarrifs, no tarrifs, frictionless trade for some industries, customs union or what?

I don't know what deal (good or bad) we have with America, Australia, India, South Africa, China or any where else in the world, do you? All I know is that I can go on holiday around the world, I can sell and buy stuff around the world, the details I leave up to the people employed to sort out the details. I care but I don't really care about knowing the details of a deal with the EU, apparently Canada has one, sounds like a good deal, lets go for that.

If the EU demands £60,000,000,000 up front and won't talk trade until after we have paid: Do you think this is likely given that they are keen to sort something out as well

No I don't think its likely which is why I think we will do a good deal.

If the treasury/lse forecast are in the right ball park this amount will be wiped of GDP in under 2 years if we leave without a deal

When forecasts start being right I will start worrying about forecasts. Until then I will believe that car manufacturers are putting their money where their mouth is. In the UK.

So can we expect the locals to now head out to the fields, for minimum wage, at dawn for 16 hour shifts pulling turnips to export to- oh, hang on.

Why wouldn't they?

Are you trying to infer that British people think they're 'too good' for that sort of work?

What a superior attitude you have regarding the lower paid foreign workers as worth little more than imported goods.

How on earth will I be able to afford a cheap extension now?! and I won't find it as easy to get an Eastern European au pair for poor Jocasta now, at half the price of a British nanny

Exactly Semi its like remainers think Europeans should be our lower paid, lower skilled workers and we shouldn't have to get our hands dirty. Talk about Little Englanders.

semi British people realise low pay leaves you struggling to pay bills and raise a family. Low pay exploits Brits and foreign workers equally. The issue to address is poor pay and conditions - this is not the fault of the EU. Wages will not magically rise post Brexit. There are plenty of low paid jobs currently in areas with low immigration.

Draylon I just don't recognise what you are saying - not where I live anyway. My area voted over 70% leave. It is a lovely place to live, very little poverty, low unemployment. People here are not angry, they have good lives, they certainly don't want to give the establishment a kicking (a slab of cheese with a blue rosette would beat any non-Tory in an election round here): they just don't want to stay in the EU.

Exactly wrong trouser.
Many of my remainer friends agree that there is a good economic case for leaving the EU and two who are at the very top of international companies and both just shrug when asked about business post brexit. The only place I hear all the angst is mumsnet.

The only place I hear all the angst is mumsnet

Yep. The remainers on MN are completely obsessed. They also come across as very anti-English, their love for NS confirms that.

we, the tax payer, are stumping up the sweeteners, dressed up as meeting 'training costs'

Ummm training our young people for jobs is somehow a sweeter? Ummm isn't that exactly what we should be doing?

I voted leave, am well educated, fairly rich and live in Oxfordshire.

wrong

I think we may live in the same place when it comes to voting tory

Some of the posts on here for example from wrong can be very interesting, lots of head nodding

Some are just chatting shit

But there have been some very good points made by some posters on the pub threads

Yep. The remainers on MN are completely obsessed. They also come across as very anti-English, their love for NS confirms that.

Ah yes, the old "you're either with us or against us" tactic. A vote for Brexit was a vote to end the UK. The SNP would have no remit to call a second referendum without Brexit. There is likely to be an independent Scotland and a united Ireland now. The seeds have been sown. Leavers on this thread clearly have no idea what they have unleashed.

I certainly think that there is going to be even more DWP sanctioning as a result of the rise in the number of available very low paid roles.

I Daniel Blake will look like a picnic, and Boris will be glad he invested in those water cannon.

Under current rules, a zero hours contract job paying the hourly national minimum wage is "suitable" employment which must be accepted by anybody on JSA.

If you turn up to work and find there aren't any hours after all, (think Amazon warehouse, where they don't even refund your bus fare) it's the Foodbank for you, and back to the DWP for more form filling to try to reinstate your benefits.

Yeah ghost

Chatting shit

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/28/pictures-day-28-february-2017/carnival-float-depicting-british-prime-minister-theresa-may/

Apposite, given thread title...

Distinct lack of answering questions. Lets be clear;

Brexit will lead to skills shortages - employers will struggle to recruit.
Wages will not rise.
Workers rights are at risk
Poverty and inequality will increase
Cost of living up
Government will likely have to attract workers from outside EU
Break up of union - ironically UK not EU!

I also live in a high leave area, but a fairly affluent one. All of the leave voters I know are indeed well-off. They are also mostly 50-plus and are quite likely well-off because they have benefited from the economic stability provided by being in the EU/EEC for the past 40 years. Most of them use their argument for leaving (as I have heard from many on here) that the EU wasn't what they signed up for, they were happy to just be members of the common market. Although now that that seems to be off the table too, suddenly it is all "Oh, of course leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. We knew that." And they will happily bugger off, having reaped the economic benefits themselves but leaving my children with a poorer future.

Brexit will in 30 years time be regarded as a sideshow. The real issue is that excessive consumption of resources and climate change will combine to make our current lifestyles unsustainable. Whatever the faults of the EU, it and, weirdly China are the only major global powers that get this. Without the EU there would have been no agreement in Paris. The solution to our problems is going to be found in a sustainable European style social democracy which focuses on developing hi tech solutions to climate change, resource scarcity etc. The populist right does not hold the answers. It is a temporary blip and a direct response to the financial crisis and austerity.

Please 'deconstruct' what I've said. Don't make me feel the Viewsnight assertion of 'Low education' is so provable

Why write a long post inviting discussion and end it with a comment like that?

Draylon If your understanding is that the correlation between leave voting and level of education means that all 17 million plus leave voters have "low education" please go and do some reading on statistics and what such correlation means (short answer - it doesn't mean everyone who voted leave is in one category wrt education and everyone who voted remain is in the other). Perhaps also have a look at some of the studies and look at the actual numbers (eg Ashcroft, off the top of my head, 43% of graduates voted leave, might not be totally accurate but you get the idea).

Also, you might want to consider whether you are conflating formal education and intelligence/common sense/ knowledge of the world. Some of the wisest people I know don't have two A'levels to rub together.

I also just can't stop myself pointing out the irony of someone demonstrating a poor grasp of statistics and lack of understanding of the actual demographic date on referendum voting ( which is freely available and has been for many months) whilst calling us leave posters "under-educated" and "ill-informed".