We don't have to pay a penny to the EU under Brexit!

[Olympiathequeen]

Latest news. There is no legal requirement to pay a penny and no court in the world that will enforce punitive 'divorce' penalties on us

We probably will pay something, but they can feck off with their 60 billion pounds.

I just hope it will curb some of the more rabid EU urges to 'punish' us for a democratic choice to no longer trade within rules that no longer suit us.

You only have to consider her trip to India with much fanfare - how wonderful the trade deals we were going to get. It all went very quiet when India said they wanted visas for their citizens

9 out of 10 visas to Indian citizens are granted, so these are students and workers who are welcome to come. What needs to be sorted out is the thousands of visa overstayers. Would India really cut its financial nose off for a good trade deal for a visa deal which is already generous? I think not, but like every negotiator they will use everything they've got. As we will with the zero payment bill.

I think you have swallowed Mrs May's script Olympia. Student numbers from India are already down substantially. Why would they not be, when countries like Australia hold out the welcome mat and the UK doesn't?

Would India cut off it's nose for a good trade deal? What exactly will we trade with them? We don't manufacture much. They already have a sophisticated IT sector, so we won't be selling IT expertise to them.

Hopefully if we have some additional bargaining leverage we won't have to accept American food standards and interference in the NHS because the EU will see the sense of reaching a mutually beneficial agreement with the UK.

we might even have additional money to spend on the NHS although it won't be £35 million a week

Anyway, we've got to start paying more per capita for the NHS than we currently do and stop doing it on the cheap

We could spend more on the NHS now, if we chose to do so. Why don't we?

Hopefully if we have some additional bargaining leverage we won't have to accept American food standards and interference in the NHS because the EU will see the sense of reaching a mutually beneficial agreement with the UK

Eh? What has that food standards and the NHS got to do with the EU? We're leaving remember

Olympia I agree.

Well there is far more to trade than manufacturing (although I disagree with you there wrt high end manufacturing) and IT.

From your tone it seems you think we are going to build a Trump style wall around the whole of the uk?

I think we are going to find that the UK is much less attractive to both investors and people. This will suit May fine, because she hates immigrants. The only people who will want to invest will be the people who want the bargain basement deals.

ItsAll. ^^. Stated above that now we won't be trading as we have been and will be getting trade deals with the USA as an alternative (not true) we will have to accept USA standards on food (hormones in beef etc) and US bidding for NHS contracts.

I was answering that. Keep up!

Peregrina. Does your crystal ball let you know the winning lottery numbers? Speculation isn't fact.

No more speculation than you were going in for Olympia - are words like 'Hopefully if' more than that?

It's not speculation to say we are in a better bargaining position. It's fact

To put it more specifically than 'hopefully if'...... if the EU know what's good for them they will take into account they don't have the leverage of a gigantic bill they can beat us over the head with.

And now Fillon is looking very precarious that can only be in our interest as he is so anti english following Brexit,

Whether we have to pay this (legally) or not is pretty irrelevant. The issue is whether a lack of a transitional deal will hurt us more than the EU27. You can spin it all you like, but no deal is an absolute disaster for the UK, and bad but not disastrous for the ear of the EU. Our negotiating position is incredibly weak, even allowing for this. As will become apparent soon enough. Antagonising the EU27 with this payment issue isn't going to help. All they have to do is sit it out for two years and do nothing.

'If' is not fact, it implies a condition. It's not like saying 'it rained yesterday evening'. Fact.

You also need to think about how this is going to play out in public opinion across the EU. Ifwe are seen as trying to shirk our responsibilities, and not pay out fair share of the liabilities. A turn in public opinion in any one of the EU27 is enough to block a trade deal.

I agree olympia.. there is so much speculation on mumsnet from one specific group. The way I see it is that you are only trying to let people know that there is room for positive speculation too... Peregrina and fine seem to take issue with that. IDK why.

Absolutely nobody has suggested shirking our responsibilities, but we are not responsible for future projects. We will obvs have to pay for access to the single market.

If you get a dodgy utility bill you are quite within your rights to question it.

Peregrina. As is i think

YER. Yes there is a specific group determined to talk down everything positive and paint the darkest picture possible. IDK why either

But it is fact that whatever deal we strike with the EU cannot be as good as actually being in the EU.

I think TM sees Brexit as a convenient vehicle for her own political agenda. You realise we are letting her get away with whatever she wants because Brexit is dominating political discourse.

Take the reinstatement of housing benefit cuts for 18-21 year olds that was put to the house on Friday afternoon when only a handful of MPs were in session... a perfect example of the govt trying to get its own policies through under the radar and without opposition in the shadow of Brexit.

At the end of all this, we will have a poor deal with the EU because govt is not actually thinking about the EU. They're thinking about their own agenda and the most undemocratic thing about the whole process is that we have an unelected leader who in the absence of opposition and under the veil of this fucking referedum has basically torn up the 2015 party manifesto, taken Brexit as a carte Blanche opportunity to do what she wants without consultation... and is now set to irreversibly destroy our public services, jobs and economy before anyone can do anything about it in 2020.

Brexit doesn't mean Brexit. Brexit means a smokescreen for implementing non-mandated, outrageous political motives at the expense of us all.

All the leavers who believe in her, you've fallen for it hook line and sinker.

It is 2017 now... we get to vote again in 2020... you never know if she does well I might vote for her.

It is all speculation. We will not know what she has achieved until negoriations are over.

It will be too late by 2020. America gets to vote again then too but it doesn't give me any more confidence in DT getting things right