Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

New EU immigration regulations may lead to deportations

597 replies

Mistigri · 27/02/2017 13:02

Article on new HO regulations concerning the rights of EU citizens in the UK:

www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-citizens-uk/

On the face of it, these new rules would appear to give the HO the right to deport any EU citizen without permanent residency rights, who is not currently exercising treaty rights and who does not have private health insurance. This will include many EU spouses of UK citizens who are not currently working and cannot document a 5 year period during which they exercised treaty rights - regardless of the amount of time they have spent in the UK.

This gives a whole new slant to those HO letters suggesting that EU citizens make plans to leave. Might be time for affected EU citizens to consider legal advice :-/

(Weird and hostile way of opening negotiations with the EU27 over migrants' rights - I am coming to the conclusion that May may actually want the negotiations to fail).

OP posts:
Redpoll · 05/03/2017 12:06

People just don't get it do they? Its no good playing up to the realities of truth on social media.

The point I am trying to make is that if it is really thought that people care on the basis of the welfare of others then they are clearly mistaken.

As sad as it is too say there will not be enough Uk residents who oppose what happens in the end to make any difference to the outcome, and statistical UK governments are not renown for making u-turns on decision making.

I am not sure what part of the vote was unfair under the banner of democracy either- The only people who seem to have a problem with that are the ones which are affected by the outcome?

So then if no-one likes the outcome after we finally leave the EU, what do you all propose civil war? No I think not.
None of this is hardly life changing to anyone so before everyone starts jumping to conclusions which have not been made then stopping worrying about it.

If I had a partner or family or partner that were threatened with a move back to their country of origin surely you would show your solidarity and move with them as in-unjust as the decision to have to do so might seem in the first place?

woman12345 · 05/03/2017 12:09

then stopping worrying about it
bingo!.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:11

Wow redpoll that is harsh

RedAndYellowPeppers · 05/03/2017 12:19

I think what will happen is that lots of people who have lived here for years, decades will lose their rights. Rights to a pension, access to NHS and benefits if they need them.
YY I agree and THIS would be devastating for thousands of people who have spent all their working life here and will be left with nothing at all.
It is worth remembering that already EU crizens do not have the same access to benefits too. Since 2015, they have restricted access to JSA (only 6 months) and cannot get a council home (I know it's hard to get one British or not but it leaves people very vulnerable)

whatwouldrondo · 05/03/2017 12:21

And to add to my post it is surely significant in a world where emotion seems to trounce rational debat, that those words have taken on a life of their own whilst the actual point I was making which should be of concern whatever your views on Brexit, is lost without trace Hmm

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:22

If I had a partner or family or partner that were threatened with a move back to their country of origin surely you would show your solidarity and move with them as in-unjust as the decision to have to do so might seem in the first place?

Your partner would be faced with potential problems with residency in that other country.

You may have done training and qualifications which have cost you a vast amount which is uk specific. You may have gained all your work experience here. You may have bought a house and had kids and grandkids here. You may not have seen the country you are going to get deported to as you may have lived in several places growing up...

I can think of many reasonsons why you would be concerned.

It is not as simple as you think redpoll.

I do not believe it will come to that though. And I believe the government will come up with something sensible for people who are already here. I believe the best way to do that is through negotiations.

TeamLentil · 05/03/2017 12:26

If I had a partner or family or partner that were threatened with a move back to their country of origin surely you would show your solidarity and move with them as in-unjust as the decision to have to do so might seem in the first place?

Well, yes, my DH has said that if I end up getting the boot we'll both move to my country of birth. It will suck because we have a house, a life, children, investments here and we have both paid A LOT in tax during the 17 years I've been here. Not sure what your point is.

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 05/03/2017 12:27

If there are mass deportations and reciprocity... 2 things spring to mind:

My sister lives in Spain, she tells me that according to the press there the number of British citizens is 900,000 not the 300,000 quoted by the press here. Most of them pensioners. If these people are deported back to the UK they will all have to sell homes etc most probably at a loss (a disaster for them I imagine) and be accommodated by the NHS (but that will be OK with the extra 350million or billion or whatever. Phew).

What happens to families of British and EU citizens? If reciprocity is applied these families will not be able to settle anywhere in the UK or the EU. Is TM (yes, the ball is in her court) expecting them to split forever? Or is there a magical country somewhere where these crazy people who married foreigners and their undesirable children will be accepted?

TeamLentil · 05/03/2017 12:27

Apologies, the app let me down for italicising the first paragraph of my previous post.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:27

I was quoting redpoll

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:28

Forgot the speech marks, sorry redpoll

RedAndYellowPeppers · 05/03/2017 12:28

The point I am trying to make is that if it is really thought that people care on the basis of the welfare of others then they are clearly mistaken.
Yes that is true. And very sad (your personal interests can be very different than the interest of the country as a whole).

None of this is hardly life changing to anyone
If this isn't going to change a lot for people, why on earth have they voted to leave??Confused
I would really be confused if people at voted for something thinking it wouldn't make a difference.

If I had a partner or family or partner that were threatened with a move back to their country of origin surely you would show your solidarity and move with them as in-unjust as the decision to have to do so might seem in the first place?
This is a very simplistic view of what would or should happen. As I am sure you are aware, immigrating (because that's what the partner would be doing) isn't easy and certainly doesn't suit everyone. Some People will never cope with immigrating and it's not because they have got married with a foreigners that they will.
Also when people have lived so long in a country, they will feel like foreigners in their own country. This is a fact that is well documented and also explains why, once people have settled in a another country, they are unlikely to move back. A good friend of mine moved to Singapore for a Couple of years with her DH work. The one thing they were told is that going there for two years would be easy. But coming back would be hard. After just two years. Imagine if yu have been there for 10 or 20 years.
And then you have the issue of the children schooling, family who is left there with elderly parents etc...
Have a look at how hard it is for British people to take the decision to move to Europe (to follow their jobs moved there by Brexit) and how many of them decide not to. The same applies for partners of foreigners who are likely not to speak the language, just like the children btw.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 05/03/2017 12:32

slippery yes it is also possible that the partner will not be allowed in the home country of the immigrant.
Whic basically means that families would be ripped apart.

I am 'lucky' in that I'm pretty sure that DH could come with us in France as we are married and the dcs are french (they won't separate families).
BUT he is one of those people who are not made for immigration. Both his parents are ill, one with cancer, the other has very serious heart problems. Will he want to go? Tbh, I don't know. I think that decision would be extremely hard to take for him.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:32

Ohtabla exactly.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:34

That is why I disagree with the hol decision. Any decision should be made with all migrants in mind.

That can only happen with negotiation.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 05/03/2017 12:34

I have to say I so so wish I was as optimistic as some of you on this thread who are saying that the government will never separate families or will let anyone who has been there for 5 years after April 2019 stay with no question.

I really want to see that happening. I'm just that confident it will be the case :(

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:36

I would certainly not be in support of mass deportation. I would support the end of free movement as it stands at present, in future years though.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:38

I suspect it will be one of the areas the government will be pushed on and I think things will work out better for people who are already here.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:40

They need to create this hysteria around it, because they are hoping that other nations will be so horrified that it will be top of their agenda. This will allow the government to appear as though they have made a massive concession and gain ground on other areas. May is not as "far right" as you think she is in my opinion.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:41

It may not be "nice" bit the solution will be better in the end.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:43

And for the record.... Yes that is exactly what I would do.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 05/03/2017 12:52

They need to create this hysteria around it, because they are hoping that other nations will be so horrified that it will be top of their agenda.

Yep i can reassure you that other nations are horrified.
On a diplomatic POV, I'm not sure that this will be beneficial for the uk. The EU for example is horrified by the way DT is acting towards EU citizens. The result isn't good for the US with having visas reinstated.

Maybe this will lead the UK to look good. Or it will to the UK becoming like a pariah to the rest of the world due to their attitude.
I'm not sure.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 12:56

Only time will tell.

Donald trump is a nightmare and has actively introduced dubious policies.

The situation is very different.

whatwouldrondo · 05/03/2017 13:01

How can anyone argue that the government will not contemplate ripping families apart when they are doing it already. It was Mays tenure at the Home Office that saw the automatic right of spouses to reside here removed in the first place. Non EU spouses are already being deported, and British citizens who fall in love with non EU nationals are already having to go and live elsewhere. Of course when they start doing it to citizens of neighbouring countries it will be moving the goalposts completely and impact a lot more lives but given the UKs immigration policies for non EU nationals which even some Tories have been highlighting adversely affect business and the knowledge economy then it is clear we have xenophobic dogma driven Prime Minister. I think EU nationals living here have every reason to be worried

Mistigri · 05/03/2017 13:02

They need to create this hysteria around it, because they are hoping that other nations will be so horrified that it will be top of their agenda.

As has been pointed out many times, this is such a silly argument that anyone using it has to be arguing in bad faith.

The problem is that there is a huge assymetry between the numbers of UK nationals in, say, Spain and the number of Spanish people in the UK. You can't persuade the Spanish government by threatening to send Polish citizens home. In the same way, the Polish government has a lot to lose, but very little to offer in return, because few Britons live in Poland.

The only country where there is anything like symmetry of numbers is France; but even there, the argument doesn't really hold, because the vast majority of French people in the UK are young people in salaried work, whereas many if not most Brits in France are retired or "self-employed" and living off top-up benefits. I would put the proportion of Britons in France in salaried work at fewer than 10% of the total, and that's probably generous (it wouldn't surprise me if the true figure were below 5%).

People on these threads often don't have a clue how brexit is presented in the European press, because they don't even have enough French/ german /spanish to read a simple newspaper article. The truth is that there is zero hysteria and, for the most part, this issue is of no interest whatsoever to ordinary French and Spanish voters. This means there is very little for politicians to get excited about.

I see no evidence of any appetite at all for kicking Britons out, except perhaps in the far right fringe - though efforts will undoubtedly be made to restrict British access to benefits and healthcare, and this will result in people leaving of their own accord.

OP posts: