Westministenders: Boris and The By-Elections

[RedToothBrush]

You lot post too fast!

A50 has made it out of the Commons without any amends. Its on its way to the Lords, but this week is half term, so in theory not much going on (in the UK at least). It hit the Lords on the 20th where it might not get such an easy ride. The Lords will not (and CAN NOT) stop brexit or frustrate it. But the numbers are in perhaps more favour of amendments if they choose to go that way, than the Commons. This would throw the bill back to the Commons. This is pretty reasonable.

In the meantime its 12 days to go until the Copeland and Stoke Central By-Elections.

Leave.Eu think UKIP have Stoke in the bag. They think there will be a 33% turnout. I think a turnout that high is the land of fantasy. Paul Nuttalls who was at Hillsborough is now a devout Stokie who has lived there all his life. Except of course he isn't.

Copeland looks like it will go Conservative. Its theirs to throw away. It would be the first victory for a sitting government in a by-election since 1983 if they make it. They intend to use a victory as another argument for a 'mandate'. But have they managed to drop a nuclear booboo?

One more Question. What are the chances of this thread making it to the 23rd?!

Great stuff red thanks, and interesting on the marketing strategies.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/paul-nuttall-ukip-hillsborough-claims-lynda-roughley-stoke-by-election-a7580616.html
press liaison officer was upset by the Stewarrt Lee clip and fell on her sword.

I get it. Bendy Bananas and the art of getting people who have no interest to suddenly become the most opinionated people out there you'll come across Yes, I've noticed that this year.

Donald has unfollowed Kellyanne Conway on twitter. Apparently.

Twitter is going crazy.
Everyone saying it must be serious for Donald to do that.

That or he's trying to draw attention away from the Flynn story and the fact that Trump said he didn't need to sit in on intel meetings as Flynn was doing it and would fill him in. And the fact that he's known about the issues around Flynn for weeks. And that Flynn has come after Manafort and Page (Hadn't realised Page had gone for links to Russia too). And Flynn was talked to by the FBI and if he lied to them its a criminal offence.

Nope, Its all about Kellyanne Conway and how he's unfollowed her on twitter.

sigh

rtb with that post you've given this stats head a wonderful valentine's present. Please take these in return and ignore the colours that aren't red, in an ironic way of course .

I only hope that the fall out of the brexit clusterfuck is a proper engagement by the younger society. I grew up with Thatcher, was able to vote in the Blair era and felt desperately that I needed to. My DM brought us to the polls, she didn't have to as she could have voted whilst we were at school but she wanted us to understand the significance. I do this too with my DC in the vague hope it will give them the need to vote too.

It's completely cool that you have links with Russia but don't make up a massacre now.

Na Kellyanne Conway is in trouble for advertising Ivanka's stuff after she got dropped.

Its perfectly ok for you to use government money to pay for foreign leaders to stay at your gaff though. And then have a bunch of people use their mobiles to shine a light on top secret documents in the middle of a restaurant whilst people take photos of it.

Now would be a good time to draw parallels between Orgreave and Hillsborough injustices by the way.

BIG ONES.

Big Human Rights Shaped Ones.

ECHR ones.

Britain's foreign secretary today:
^After meeting the new president of the Gambia, which saw its first democratic transfer of power last month, Johnson joked about the autocrat who spent 22 years in power, Yahya Jammeh – calling him “Jammeh dodger”. However, he would not address the shock felt by many Africans upon reading the British minister’s articles about their continent, written when he visited Uganda in 2002.
His 2002 column entitled “If Blair’s so good at running the Congo, let him stay there” in which he referred to “flag-waving piccaninnies” and wrote of Tony Blair’s arrival: “No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird.”
But at a press conference on Tuesday, the foreign secretary’s press team prevented Gambian journalists from asking questions about this, saying beforehand that their questions were “too aggressive” and “insulting^”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/14/boris-johnson-questions-gambia-colonialism-views.

Nuttall's press officer resigns:

She said: "Paul is a man of great integrity and would not say something he knew to be untrue. It's me who has made this mistake, and one I feel absolutely terrible about.

I don't believe her. I think this is Nuttall trying to do a damage limitation exercise. Nuttall has already lied about his academic experience and his footballing prowess, so it's nonsense to say he wouldn't say something untrue. He says it until he gets found out.

Orgreave Justice Retweeted
Tony Evans ‏*@TonyEvans92a*

Again, let's just be clear what Hillsborough is about to help @Arron_banks It's not about football. Or Liverpool. It's about public safety
It's about being able to trust the public services. When anyone you love goes out to a public event, knowing that they will be protected
If something goes horribly wrong then there will be a full investigation as to why it happened. Those who make catastrophic errors admit it
Because then everyone can learn from it and try to ensure similar events never happen again
Instead, policemen and politicians lied and covered up truth. They blamed victims. Is this what @Arron_banks wants from public services?

Hello Orgreave.

Tony Evans ‏*@TonyEvans92a*
Hillsborough is about denying responsibility. It's about a monumental cover up: a systematic use of state resources to lie to public
So, yeah, thinking about it, it's probably exactly what @Arron_banks and his UKIP mates want to do. Don't let them

I also think that the risk of increased Loyalist violence shouldn't be underestimated: being sold down the river by GB when they consider themselves as British to the bone is going to be intensely psychologically damaging to a large section of the NI population. Removing large chunks of EU funding which WM won't replace means that the local economy is going to be devastated, with even more unemployment and social deprivation (both of which help increase sympathy for, and membership of paramilitary groups). It would be ironic if Loyalists began to take out their anger on the rest of the UK.

Ironic and most unlikely. That is not how NI Unionism works or thinks.
The crashing of the economy doesn't matter to the average diehard Loyalist/Unionist any more than it matters to UKIP.

The capacity for Loyalist violence should not be underestimated - absolutely correct.
But any violence from that quarter will be carried out in order to demonstrate that Ulster Unionists refuse to consider a united Ireland, and therefore it will involve very adamant gestures against nationalist targets, 'weak' unionists and others who hob nob with 'the enemy', and symbols of north/south links like the rail line between Dublin and Belfast. They will not target mainland Britain. They know what side their bread is buttered on.

...and of course a huge number of personal and political scores will be settled within the Loyalist community.

[P.J.O'Rourke] notes there are Unionist terrorists (with Catholic members) as well as Protestant IRA members.
The fact that there might have been one or two people from each community batting for the other side is really not a detail upon which to hang an argument about the sectarian divide. The two communities are separated by actual walls in some places, euphemistically called 'peace walls'.

Hundreds of years of bitter enmity informs all the assumptions each community has about the other, and Unionists have both played and been played by the Tories since the 1880s. That is a pattern that seems likely to continue. The big difference between the period from 1880 to 1920 and today is that the south has an actual modern economy now, and the NI nationalist community will not take second class citizenship lying down ever again. The guarantee of equality under the law was the ECHR and the umbrella of the GFA. Without the ECHR NI may return all the way back to the 1968 Civil Rights marches.

Hello Orgreave.

Orgreave is slightly different - IMO. It's more about the right to protest, which we are still allowed to do, despite some on MN apparently trying to argue against it.

We could also add another overlooked protest - the 'battle of the beanfield' where people gathering were attacked by/ got into battle with the Police, which also needs a review as to what exactly happend.

.

I agree orgreave is slightly different too. However it still is the people V the state and demonstrates that the government has not always got the will of the people at heart and there is danger in allowing government to act as if it does.

On the subject of Orgreave and the miners' strike generally - there are still people not speaking to each other more than 30 years on as a result. So how or why Theresa May thinks that 7 months is enough to heal profound divisions in the country revealed by the Referendum is beyond me.

SemiPermanent, your questions about a resumption of terrorism suggest that you believe terrorism must automatically come from the nationalist side.

I suspect it is more likely to be the Loyalist/Unionist side that will cast aside all pretense of engagement with democracy and take to the streets again. The Tory party has always been very mindful of Loyalist violence and threats of violence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larne_gun-running Why not continue a tactic that has worked in the past? i.e. adopt a militant pose and arm yourself, then say 'No'. Unionists had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the GFA and seem quite relieved that it will soon be scuppered.

balaclavastreet.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/terminal-effects-the-guns-of-the-loyalist-paramilitaries/ More on Loyalist arms and violence and also the role of deep sympathy for the Unionist cause in the British Establishment. Note the phrase 'ex B-Special' that crops up. Note also the sheer number of Loyalist paramilitary groups that get a mention - Red Hand, UVF, UDA, Shankill Defenders, etc..

I suppose it's natural to focus on the bombings when you live in Britain, but the money for all those weapons was stolen from banks and post offices and citizens who kept their cash in their mattresses, squeezed out of Northern Ireland small businesses by means of protection rackets, and generated by vice rings owned and operated by paramilitary groups. In addition to all of that, NI was tearing itself apart: 1972 was the year in which Northern Ireland came closest to civil war. A staggering 10,628 shooting incidents took place, roughly 30 each day. (From the 'balaclava' link) Terror was first and foremost inflicted on the people of Northern Ireland itself. The casualties had no impact on the Westminster government. The government added to the misery by the use of supergrasses, plants, informants, and all sorts of overt and covert surveillance. A very dirty war indeed.

Note too the links between militant Unionists and right wing groups like the National Front and South Africa's Apartheid regime.

1994 Public Order Act was to prevent protest. I don't think there is a public right to protest, hence fracking protests being quashed so vigorously:
"Section 68 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 says that anyone who trespasses on land and does anything to intimidate someone engaged in a lawful activity or to disrupt or obstruct a lawful activity on land is committing a criminal offence".

Orgreave(and the battle of the Beanfield to some extent) became precedents, for many aspects of current common and statute law on protesting and trade union rights.

SemiPermanent, your questions about a resumption of terrorism suggest that you believe terrorism must automatically come from the nationalist side.

Math, perhaps it came across like that but it's not my presumption at all.
My comments were more broadly in response to the previous posts where posters were talking about a resumption of Nationalist terrorism (against the financial institutions etc).

Thanks for the links though, I will read them later.

militant Unionists and right wing groups like the National Front and South Africa's Apartheid regime
Gruesome. They all piss in the same pot.

Deborah Orr on labour shortages and the shape of post-Brexit globalism in Britain.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/shameful-betrayal-brexit-low-paid-eu?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

The most remarkable achievement of the two Leave campaigns combined was their success in selling Brexit as simultaneously globalist and protectionist. Perhaps the only way to tie those two contradictory positions together was by conjuring an image of Britain at height of its imperial powers ready to dominate the globe again. I'm not sure what it's going to take to wake people up from this very comforting dream.

7 months is enough to heal profound divisions in the country revealed by the Referendum is beyond me.

Divide and rule, sadly, no matter what the personal and cultural costs.
Remember how partisan was the coverage and treatment of the miners during the strike? It was north versus south, although, fantastic the unity of all miners from Scotland down to Yorkshire. And Labour parlously impotent.

But the right wing press, were very similar to current practice in their 'analysis' and miners were to all intents and purposes treated like political dissidents in a tin pot dictatorship.

Good preparation for current one.

For those who would like some light amusement read these comments about
Nuttall