The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Tuckers I am indeed that old. DB and I were teenagers in the late 70s and the Labour isn't working slogan is what I remember. Couple of interesting links on Thatcher's Britain and historical levels and definitions of unemployment.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22070491

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_in_the_United_Kingdom#The_definition_and_measurement_of_UK_unemployment

Elf I agree with your analysis of the problems within the PLP. The DC and I were discussing this within the context of constituency changes and talk of deselections. We were wondering if Tony Blair's reforms to the selection process for local candidates have been a factor in fuelling the disconnect?

I would have to argue that ignoring research in favour of anecdote by tabloid headline brings us closer to the meaning of post-truth world.

I'm certainly not denying that the problems, eg in the NHS, are real. But they have very little to do with migration (remember EU nationals are disproportionately represented amongst NHS staff), and everything to do with government policy since the financial crisis.

I feel this is what its coming down too you either understand and accept these issues or you don't

I disagree.

You can understand the issues whether your a leave or remain supporter. The big difference is Leavers think Brexit will resolve these issues whereas Remainers can't see how that will be the case.

The NHS would be in a far better position if they started working smarter (the people in charge, not the workers themselves).

Over reliance on bank & agency staff & a shortage of training capability is crippling it.
To plug the gaps, the NHS has employed ready trained people from elsewhere for far too long because it's short term cheaper.

Unfortunately, there's not enough long term strategy and hasn't been for years & years - no govt is exempt from that.

The NHS would definitely benefit if it was removed from politically motivated interference and was an ongoing cross party project.
Equally prisons & education.

TuckersBadLuck: my point was that the current 1.62m includes women on benefits whose youngest child is 5 or over (I think?), and of course unemployed men who would have had a job if a mother hadn't been encouraged back to work by having to sign on. Weds 11:55:53

So women should give up work so men can have jobs? Or have I misunderstood?

Of course you have boodly! I was explaining the difference between the basis of the 1979 figures and the figures today - not saying that there's anything wrong with women working!

boodly I don't think Tuckers was saying anything of the sort. They were more elaborating on my central point that 1.62m in no way reflects the true level of under / unemployment in the labour market.

So if the available for work and in work is 31.76m + unemployed 1.62m + economically inactive of working age 8.91m = 42.29m. 50% female with 30% economically inactive would infer women of about 6.3m. This would infer male labour inactivity of 2.6m (8.9-6.3) and if we assume the same level of non-HW inactivity in women this gives 5.2m of "voluntary" inactivity. In an era where this figure is climbing far more than unemployment is falling it seems blinkered to ignore it?

This was my reaction to Fawful's earlier analysis of the impact of migrant work in the local economy which I think is rather narrow.

Thanks for the reply. I spluttered when I read your original comment and thought it can't mean what I thought it meant. Going back to lurking and learning about 'stuff' on these splendid threads.

Andy Burnham has just been on Newsnight doing a much better job than me of explaining how EU un/low/semi-skilled migration has adversely affected the north.
Basically what some of us have been saying on this thread - driving down wages & conditions etc.

Also talking about how the London-centricness of the Labour Party is proving to be its undoing.
And also how the London-centicness of the past few govts (back to TB) was the driver of policies, neglecting everywhere else.
Scotland, NI & Wales have their devolved govts, and London/South East has WM - the rest of the country gets forgotten and ignored.

Len McCluskey launching his leadership re-election bid and squarely confronting the issues with FOM and the Gig economy.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/work/trade-unions/news/81783/len-mccluskey-defies-jeremy-corbyn-call-end-free-movement

A bit of perspective on net migration figures over time. Levels over 300,000 are a post 2003 phenomenon.

visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspectives-a-recent-history-of-international-migration/

Hi all

Haven't been on here for ages but just wanted to wish you all a very happy Christmas.
Bring on 2017 and A50!

And to you

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year to all from me too xx

Happy Christmas all

I was just coming here to say a Merry Christmas to you all too, , yes roll on 2017 and see what it brings. Freedom hopefully, the road to FREEEEDOOOOM.

Merry Christmas from me to but more like The road to hell

Is it a bit sad to say I miss you all? Yes all of you.

Looking forward to lots of lively chat in the new year

Thought I'd pop a link on this thread; posted on the Westminstenders thread by howabout.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/leave-voters-heroes-2016/

The following bit made me think of Leave posters who have popped in & out on these threads, and the Quiet Leavers who didn't want to admit to voting Leave to their coworkers & friends because of the appalling backlash in the immediate aftermath of the ref:

"...the most shocking thing about 2016 wasn’t Brexit, which I love deeply, or even the election of Trump, whom I’m opposed to...No, it’s the response to Brexit and Trump that has been disturbing. Especially the response from the fuming liberal media and the less guarded sections of the political class.
Their contempt for ‘low information’ Americanss^, for American white women who don’t have college degrees, for supposedly xenophobic Brits, for the North of Englandd^, Welsh workers, tabloid readers and the uneducatedd^, has been truly alarming. Leave is talked about in the same breath as fascism, its backers viewed as so colossally dumb that they can’t even see what merry hell they have unleashed and what a dire impact it will have on their own pathetic lives. And how have Leave voters responded to these slurs and barbs? They’ve taken them on the chin, and stuck to their principles. In a beautiful little irony, their patient response to being branded dumb and fearful has shown they’re neither of those things..."

Happy Christmas everyone

Happy Christmas

Just catching up with mumsnet today after a very hectic Xmas.
Mango - have just read your post from the 23rd. Love it. it really sums up how I feel as a leaver and how I've been treated by many of these boards.

I think that's a rather biased article.

What's biased about it Darth?

Its a lot of hyperbole and very unfactual.

He talks about people's regard for "low information Americans" or the North of England, but fails to mention Farrage's own attitudes to "low grade people" who are in fact the people in his party, a sizeable number of the people who voted for brexit, without whom the leave vote couldn't have won.

All the talk of what the "media" did is utter rubbish too, the BBC and ITV were balanced, but the biggest selling print media were firmly brexit and published stories that were counter factual or misleading all the way up to the referendum.

The further point about leading remainers thinking things about "ordinary people do XYZ" is further rubbish.

The constant portrayl of it being an "ordinary people vs the elite" is just propaganda and it was skillfully stolen from the Trump campaign. Its nothing of the sort.

The victory over the elite, was brought to you today by two tax haven dwelling billionaire knights (who own the Ritz), the 74th richest person in Britain ( who is a tax exile), A non dom hereditary peer and his millionaire editor, so the elite really.