The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

I made no comment about the seasonal workers because I dont think it was interesting news.

Good news is never interesting news for the discerning Remainer...!!

I don't think it is good news mango as I explained before.

elf do you have any statistics on how many people actually can't get work (work they'd actually do) because of EU migrants as I fear it's in large an exaggerated urban myth and certainly won't benefit very many people whereas inflation will affect us all.

The irony of citing 'exaggerated urban myth' whilst recycling an exaggerated urban myth yourself in the same sentence!!!

Eh, how can an urban myth be an urban myth itself?

I'm happy to be proved wrong but the quotes elf just posted are just that- quotes- they're not facts.

The small British-owned innovative companies that are seeing a massive growth due to increased interest in automation is not a good thing??

Also, with increased automation, there's increased heavy plant engineering requirements - skilled work.

The farmers may have preferred to rely on cheap imported labour rather than moving forward and embracing technology, but now they can't do that they have to think smarter.
No bad thing.

how many people actually can't get work (work they'd actually do)

What did you mean by 'work they'd actually do'?

But that's all massively short term mango.

How can it possibly be a good thing in the long term that automation will reduce the number of available jobs?

I mean that many immigrants do work that local people don't want to do.

How can it possibly be a good thing in the long term that automation will reduce the number of available jobs?

Who do you think maintains the machinery?
Operates the machinery?
Provides/replaces the machinery?

Should we all go back to pre industrial revolution when labour intensive jobs were bountiful?!

I mean that many immigrants do work that local people don't want to do.

Yes, that's what I thought you meant.
It's an exaggerated urban myth.
It's lazy stereotyping.
And it's frankly offensive.

www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx

These are the breakdowns for Oct 16 figures (which was what I was talking about, vs Sept 16) - it shows widespread exporting increase across all sectors (month on month) - you'd expect that given the currency devaluation. As I went on to say (probably in a different post) the government stimulus for exporting is coming at a time when businesses need it as the predicted rise in inflation kicks in.

We obviously remain as a country a massive net importer ! That has not changed!!

In fact lets eschew all automation & labour saving technology, to protect jobs

mango, I've said before I didn't comment on this as I don't see it as good or interesting news.

I don't even think it's that relevant to Brexit.

Ultimately automation is going to reduce the number of jobs in a huge number of areas in the not too distant future.

The number of people involved in maintaining that automation is a tiny proportion of the jobs it replaces.

Less jobs will cause more problems- that's not rocket science.

It is entirely relevant to Brexit.

harvest I get your point about people voting Leave because they didn't believe they'd be worse off but now it's actually happening I wonder how they feel now?

Is it actually happening now? The Leave voters I know are still earning what they earnt (or more if self employed tradespeople) on June 22nd. I think it's more like, I wonder how they will feel if they do become worse off in the next 2-5 years. And whether that happens depends on Parliament's ability to get a grip and pull together for the "sake of the country"

I don't think it is offensive to suggest that immigrants often do work that local people don't want to do - in any country. If you look at the building trade in London for example, it used to be the Irish who were builders (generalising, of course there were builders from elsewhere and of course Irish people also did other jobs!), then the Poles, now the Romanians. As each group gets more settled and prosperous, they move on to other jobs or to running their own businesses.

mango, it's not lazy stereotyping at all.

the hospitality/ retail/ building/ seasonal industries have thousands of EU migrant workers who are willing to work for wages that local people choose not to- and I'm not talking about under NMW

I live in an area of high unemployment yet the restaurants/ shops are filled with EU staff- what other explanation do you have for that?

As has been discussed on other threads today as well as this one, before the massive Eastern EU migration those jobs were done by Brits.

I myself was one of those people way back before I moved onto skilled work.
So were all my friends - we were unskilled, working class teens who took all sorts of 'shit' jobs.
Not one of my pals were on the dole.

mango, that proves my point not yours. Times have changed.

What reason is there for jobs going to unskilled EU workers as opposed to unskilled British workers other than the British workers choose not to do them?

And I'm talking about above board jobs here not those under the radar.

The idea that the 'British choose not to' do certain jobs Bear is more than likely one of the urban myths you so despise!
It is ironic that you suggest that even though you live in a high unemployment area there are loads of EU workers taking unskilled jobs!
Don't you think that might have something to do with the fact that many of the people coming from the EU are much better educated and better qualified than is needed in these jobs. Any employer would gladly take on anyone with better qualifications, experience and of course a second language especially of some of your potential customers than the unemployed inexperienced youth from the local estate.

I think there are probably a few reasons why 'some' British dont want to take 'some' jobs

I can only think of one to do with crop picking

But i am tired and my brain has just said 'fuck you' and stormed off

And the care workers and retail staff locally seem to be british

Not some of the restaurants...but they seem to be italians working in an italian restaurant etc for some reason

But Rufus, Bear was saying that there are loads of EU citizens working in her high unemployment area in Restaurants and shops which I can really see no need for. The only explanation I can see is the one that I expressed above.

No i agree with your post corcory

Maybe bears area is different

I dont like the 'eu people taking all our jobs' or the 'british people dont want to work' rhetoric

Not saying that bear or you are saying that

One reason - highlighted by peter willets in his book The Pinch, is that Eastern European immigrants who come to cities temporarily without families are much more likely to tolerate 'under-housing' eg at least one bed in nearly every room of the house, no communal space etc. They put up with it because it's temporary.

In an area with high housing and transport costs, their willingness to under-house makes them far more able to accept low paid work than local people seeking a more lasting and settled arrangement.

As always, it comes back to Thatcher and the monetising of peoples' homes.