What do remainers think of this!

[Corcory]

6 MPs, members of the commons select committee, paid a visit to Sports Direct's warehouse in Derbyshire the other day.
It is build in an ex mining area specifically to provide work for a community badly needing employment opportunities.
When the MPs were shown around the warehouse they had the opportunity to speak to many of the employees there. None of them were British all of them were Eastern European. Some didn't even speak English. So could easily be duped into taking reduced wages and a reduction in their employment rights! No unions are allowed there.
The taxi driver who took the MPs there told them there are never any jobs advertised around here from the warehouse and that people from the area would love jobs there - well provided the paid the proper wages and gave full employment rights!

"He lasted less than a week because he found the work too hard - long hours of continuous activity. Looking at comments on his FB page many of his friends have had the same sort of experience and now avoid these warehouse jobs whenever possible - leaving them to the EU workers."

I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to tell us that without EU workers those jobs would be better paid and made easier.

The idea behind FOM, as I understand it, is that 1/ having more people in work, whether from the EU or the UK or anywhere else, fuels growth, which makes everyone richer. Having all these people in jobs ha I g a life here creates new jobs, as they consume more. Apparently (and i'm yet to find stat evidence of the contrary) it does work out well financially for British citizens.
(Obviously there's the ecological impact of growth to consider (maybe? I'm obviously no economist): If growth stops we'll be polluting less, I guess, as we won't be able to afford to as many things - is that what we want? It possibly is what we should want?)
2/ The kind of jobs that are taken by some EU citizens are (the theory goes) jobs that not many British people would want to do, so in theory, it actually works out for everyone, since British people can move to some of the other better jobs created by growth.

as we won't be able to afford to as many things - is that what we want?

What would happen if that was put to a Referedum, which should be the priority, the NHS or cut immigration? Wonder how people would vote?

Fawful, do you think that overall the countries within the EU are wealthier or less wealthy than they would have been without it?

I have no idea! It might depend on what their economies depend on? Doesn't the UK's depend quite a bit on financial services, which benefits from the single market?
I should have to look into it...

:)

corcory two things.
One example doesn't give stats and certainly doesn't say 'there are many more eastern immigrants working in warehouses that people say'

As for exploiting people from other cthings countries... if they weren't there, then British people would be doing these jobs and would be exploited. Would that make it ok??

Hummus - They are exploiting the Eastern Europeans because they don't necessarily understand our employment law/ speak English. Also there are agencies in Poland who advertise the Sports Direct jobs including accommodation and transport to and from work. Thus making the employees completely reliant on the employer and afraid to complain.
They wouldn't be doing that with British employees.
As for the warehouses who push the employees to work really hard, well they do it because they can.

There are agencies here advertising the jobs with the same terms and conditions Cocory, they aren't universally taken up by Eastern Europeans either.

Your pretending like these eastern europeans are like some kind of bonded workers, they simply aren't.

if they weren't there, then British people would be doing these jobs and would be exploited

Are there enough unemployed British people who will/can work to fill all the jobs? I know that farmers aren't confident about getting your sprouts onto your dinner table this Christmas.

Well Tucker there is record low unemployment in Derbyshire, even with the immigrants taking all the jobs at SD (allegedly)

It's also our fault as customers if firms decide that their bottom line is that their goods have to be the cheapest, and that this involves total workers' flexibility. How much do we care about companies' ethics when we go shopping, as opposed to price? SD know we want cheap stuff and they give it to us, same with clothes from Bengladesh for Primark, for instance.
Stuff made ethically come at a price, it's great if we start to look into it.
I should think there aren't many of these 'companies advertising straight to Poland' and EU citizens living in cramped conditions sending money back home. I have met hundreds of EU citizens in my twenty years here and have never met or heard of anyone working to send money back home as opposed to wanting to experience the country.

The people sending money back home do exist, but they are an extremely small percentage of the EU immigrant populaton, probaby less than 1 %.

But its back to the schrodingers immigrant thing again isn't it:

They're hear claiming benefits, but simultaneously taking your job.

They're here unregistered living in HMOs and sending all their money home, but at the same time able to impact schools and GPs.

They're here taking up council houses, yet at the same time being taken advantage of by landlords who will rent to 5 people sharing a room.

They're transient, yet taking up places in schools.

It goes on and on.

Basically immigrants are the bogey man.

I have just come across this article. Looks like a large number of very influential people would want to "put EU in their place" IYSWIM?
No.we are the ones that eat our own apparently. And fight those who try to stop us.
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/07/treasury-tries-to-thwart-eu-plans-for-tax-haven-blacklist?CMP=share_btn_tw

I read somewhere that the husband of Theresa May is a big name at one off shore company. Lots of impartial "Brexit means Brexit" dose I guess?

The people sending money back home do exist

Shocking concept, should never have been allowed.

Steve Bell on May's India visit (although it sums up the general expectations of a large section of our society too now I guess)

Tucker.. yes the UK currently gets about £50bn a year in remittances paid back into the UK.

Funny that we object to others doing it.

vulpe, it's positively celebrated in the working-class psyche isn't it?

"That's living alright"

I was brought up on that.

Remainer here de-lurking. There seems to be a misconception that it is cheaper to employ Eastern European people as they don't understand their right to NMW (although I don't doubt that some unscrupulous employers do exploit people in this way). With regards to warehouse type jobs, one of my friends works in management for a large national retailer (not sports direct). The warehouses are staffed mostly by agency workers. Although the company do use UK based recruitment agencies to employ some staff, he explained that over the past few years they have employed the vast majority of their agency workers through an agency based in an Eastern European country. The reason for this is that the Eastern European agency want less per hour for each member of staff compared to UK based recruitment agencies. As agency workers are paid by and employed by their agency and not the retailer directly, although workers will all receive the NMW whether they be British nationals or immigrants, it is much cheaper to employ immigrants through the Eastern European based agency. I can't remember the exact figures but I think it was something like they pay the UK based agencies around £10 per hour for each member of staff, and the Eastern European agency a pound per hour less.

Limited is that legal? Just curious, I'm guessing it is?

I'm not sure to be honest, but I assume so as he works for a reputable company. A quick google search shows that there a quite a few Polish based recruitment agencies (for example) that have offices both in the UK and Poland.

Someone up thread said that Derbyshire had low unemployment but Shirebrook is one of the areas where there is higher unemployment especially in the under 25s which I think is the figure the MP was quoting - 7%. This is an ex colliery town where there has been considerable concern and unease because of the amount of Eastern Europeans gathering in the centre of town drinking in the streets. There are only about 11,000 people in the town so an influx of 3,000 Eastern Europeans will make a considerable impact there.
My father worked I a warehouse for many years and he certainly didn't complain of the excessively bad work practices or the pace of the work.
This was pre 1994 - pre FOM.
Now we have a culture of companies employing people through agencies and using ones in Eastern Europe as they are cheaper. And working the employees much harder than before.
This would have to change if FOM was stopped. I really don't think we need cheap unskilled labour from other countries when we can employ people from here.
If the government put a stop to zero hours contracts as well, the employers would have to make the jobs more attractive.

At some point in the last 20 years though it became politically necessary in order to be elected to promise that you were pro-business, or you were branded a socialist.
You couldn't have sold restriction on the workforce's flexibility.
All of a sudden people have this new urge to protect people's rights at the expense of growth. Then the workforce won't have to be flexible, but their buying power will be less. Which is ok, but it's a choice, and I'm finding it a bit weird how people's priorities change (at exactly the same time as it suits people to get to power).
I wonder what it will be next?