The Brexit Arms goes forth! All welcome. Leavers, Remainers, Couldn't give a Tossers, & openly gay athletes.

[surferjet]

Welcome

Winchester I salute you for your unique brand of logic, but I'm not going to waste any more time on that particular garden path. Your statement bears no relation to anything I have said.

Come on kaija I took you through it step by step. We both know a majority vote is from where an mp derives authority, parliament derives authority and government derives authority as an expression of the will of the people. That's the root of our democracy.

But not when it's something you don't like hmm that don't sound too democratic that sounds like cherry picking

Wow WW you got the sovereign bit between your teeth in the bar last night and I particularity liked your point that parliament has not been sovereign when we need 27 other countries to agree how we spend our tax payers money .

I have long thought a lack of respect for the will of people falls in with a love of Brussels.

Clegg can by the guy. No quibbles there

Yes Autumn
They weren't very nice to me

Clegg is such a tosser he really is. Sold his parties soul to get a bit of power in 2010, which resulted in most of his MP's getting alienated at the last general election, & now he's crawled out from under his stone to be some sort of ' voice of reason?
Fuck off Clegg you total arse. And you're crap on HIGNFY.

Ok Winchester, just one last time.

We elect our MPs because we believe they are the best people to represent our interests. If we don't like what they do, we write to them, attend their surgeries, write to them again, and ultimately can vote them out. That is how it works. They can only act in our interests. They cannot enact "the will of the people" because no such thing exists: my will may be radically different to that of my neighbour's.

In the case of the referendum, a majority of those who voted, voted to leave. That's it. Nothing on the ballot paper gave any clue to what that means in terms of our future relationship with Europe, or whether we voted to leave the single market, customs union etc. Nothing. So there has been no majority expression on any of these options. It remains for parliament to decide in which direction Brexit is taken. Parliament is made up of our democratically elected representatives. I cannot see what part of this you would take issue with, unless you actually would prefer a dictatorship.

I cant blame them really Surfer, having been kicked out of power, what an opportunity to have a say again, however I think following the Balls route onto Strictly would have been more appropriate for Clegg and Blair to get back into the limelight.

And how do we elect them kaija?

Why don't you tell us?

WW - I was following closely the flow of conversation last night in Brexit Arms 1 and taking it down to it base, what has happened is changing the rules after the event as they didn't get the result they wanted and let's be honest it's all about that. I think we can safely say it's an act of desperation and was bought about by a woman who felt "physically sick" that we were leaving (this is a small victory for 'her', under the guise of being for the greater good of the country, however, I imagine she will be on the first plane out and sod everyone else if she doesn't get 'her' ultimate result ). This is going to go down in history and, if we end up not leaving, anyone voicing their support of this action will have to search their consciences as I don't think this is anything that their children or grandchildren will be proud of.

No rules have been changed.

"Wow WW you got the sovereign bit between your teeth in the bar last night and I particularity liked your point that parliament has not been sovereign when we need 27 other countries to agree how we spend our tax payers money "

The sovereign parliament passed the European Communities Act 1972 which made EU law applicable in the UK. And the sovereign Parliament could repeal that act (and any others) that make EU law applicable in the UK. So where is the loss of sovereignty?

Ok Kaija - I'll amend that an out and out "change the result'. It's all fairly transparent.

"what has happened is changing the rules after the event"

The rules have been the same all along. It just turns out that a lot of people (and some tabloid newspapers apparently) don't understand how the British constitution works.

Time, the ruling doesn't do that either.

This should have all been sorted out well before 23rd but it wasn't.

However, I stand by what I have said that this court case was never purely (and only) about putting it before parliament.

Time you are spot on.

1972 was an act that willingly gave away part of our sovereignty. We want it back. Kaija if you don't know that MPs are elected by a majority vote and it's from this they derive their authority and legitimacy then you've no call to lecture even a small child on this issue.

Arguing that we can vote MPs out couldn't be less relevant. If you insist on its being part of an argument, it means the 1975 referendum is available for reversal.

May has the moral authority to use the royal prerogative: that's clear.

I think the best course of action would be to put a resolution yes/no before the House next week.

It would undoubtedly be objected to by all those people belabouring the sovereignty point now. But itjat would be more proof of your true intention to delay, frustrate and even block the will of the people. 'Oh but it's not enough for MPs to vote there has to be a debate' 'a debates not enough there has to be an Act' 'oh but it has to go to the Lords too' we need a general election just to make sure'

Etc it's just blah blah

remember reeves and Mortimer and the frying pan to the face?
Gina hall nominated - bboooonnngggg!

What part of my post contradicted the fact that MPs are elected by majority vote?

You questioned the legitimacy of the majority vote as the will of the people

For all those claiming government should have been allowed to invoke the 'will of the people', I suspect your opinions would have been very different if TM had not made immigration the priority.

The vote never mentioned how we leave the EU, it was just about whether we should of not.

If TM had decided the 'will if be people' was actually to achieve the most prosperous economy I suspect many of you would falling over yourselves to ensure the details did get debated in parliament so you could make the case for immigration taking priority.

You only dislike this ruling because the direction we were heading before suited your cause which makes it laughably ironic when you claim that is the case with Remainers.

Bear!

Oh my surfer, it's a job to keep up, took me ages to find the new place. Just back from farmers' market – the wind was chill – couple of lemon sole for tea, homity pies for lunch; coffee with BiL and DP plus my DP. Explained,

1972 our sovereign Parliament passed a law. In 2016 a majority of people voting, voted to repeal that law. A Parliamentary law needs Parliament to repeal it.

Cranberry Juice please, young man – oh, sorry luv – long hair and my eyesight, always confusing.