The Brexit Arms goes forth! All welcome. Leavers, Remainers, Couldn't give a Tossers, & openly gay athletes.

[surferjet]

Welcome

Some analysis here.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-7-graphs-that-explain-how-brexit-won-eu-explained-a7101676.html

Marmite I've been told (sternly) by a random Leaver I had to sit next to once, after she realised I had a European accent, that Britain has a lot more in common with its former Empire than with countries in Europe, because basically they speak the same language and have a rich common history. (Nevermind European history and the fact that the English language itself is a reflection of it).
'And We are not racists', she said, 'unlike people who voted Remain & a lot of Europeans'.
Which is exactly the point that Corcory is making, except that the language about British jobs for British people at the Conservative party conference + forcing firms to reveal how many foreigners they employ and reducing the number of post-study visas for students is not going to help attract as many of your former Empire citizens as you would seem to like... May seems to think that people want to see fewer foreigners full stop, she hasn't realised that it's only those racist Europeans with accents that people want out...
As an EU citizen I'm very glad people are no longer aggrieved by the colour of other people's skins, but I think they should be careful they remain fair to people with accents, and don't lose all sense of humour when talking to them randomly & assume they are mostly islamophobes, of which there are many in this country too (see demonisation of refugees)...

Also, I met a man who works for a charity involved with helping people who have been granted asylum get used to how things are done here (finding accomodation, help with job interviews etc), and he said the language coming out from senior civil see ants in the last couple of months is that the charity can expect to see less money coming from the government, because in the current climate, I quote, 'the government can't be seen to spent money on asylum seekers'.
So there's a quiet political choice to not help refugees coming from the worst places on Earth, and the government is doing it because it thinks British opinion demands it.
Are you comfortable with that, and how does it fit with your aim to welcome people from all over the world?

Basically you are feeling the warm glow of being acceptant of burqas and gay people (as am i, and most EU citizens I know), and you are blind to the irony that this gives you the right to generalise about Europeans and be quite rude to them and about them... You have been made to hate the idea of Europe so much that you are happy to risk economic failure just so that you have nothing to do with Europeans...
Are you sure that's rational?

Fawful - I have absolutely no problem with people with different accents. I don't really think your woman you sat next to is representative of leavers.
There are plenty of different cultures and different standards throughout the commonwealth that I would also call out such as honour killing and the treatment of women in some Indian subcontinent areas.

I did pop in yesterday, checked everything that was being said, decided it was time for lunch, the tongue sandwich was good surfer, and the chutney, mmmmmm.

Got comfy again and realised there weren't many people about and by today I'm so far behind, I thought I'd devise a pub quiz.

Pub Quiz

1. How many judges were there?

1. How many complainants were there?

1. Give three reasons why one complainant has been heavily criticised.

1. How many defendants?

1. How many lawyers/legal staff (excluding the judges) were there?

1. Is there evidence that when the Commons took a vote MP's were advised it was only advisory?

1. Does the judgement say the UK cannot leave the EU?

1. How many politicians who voted Remain have said Brexit will stand?

1. For how many centuries has Parliament been sovereign?

10. Why are Laker Airways and the Fire Brigade Union important in this judgement?

Found reading the judgement a lot more exciting than watching Poldark. Sad innit!

Oh, winner gets a pint of surfer's beer (watered), second gets two pints and third place? Cup of tea?

Fawful - I have absolutely nothing against Europeans, I have Danish, Swedish and French friends and Poles in my family.

Corcory, I work in the restaurant and I'm a bit bruised by all these instances when customers come in and are all smiles to my English bantering manager, and I see their sense of humour completely disappear when I take over and they hear my accent. They just can't hide their dislike.
I'm being charitable by thinking they object to Europeans because we are unkind to Muslims...
Talks of how 'I don't want to go to bed with these European countries' remind me of how these customers treat me when they hear where I'm from.
I'm calling on MNers to look at how open they really are themselves.

It's that word 'uncontrolled' people are uncomfortable with.
And that's why leavers like to bandy it around so much. We have never had uncontrolled immigration.

Theresa May is just starting trade talks with India and has already said she will not raise visa quotas for Indians

Those who suggest that curtailing EU immigration will allow us to take more immigrants from, for example, former commonwealth countries are, I suspect, being deliberately disingenuous.

(By 'we are unkind to Muslims', I don't mean that I personally am, obvs! It is fair to say that France is pretty hysterical about Islam at the moment, but hatred is stroked up massively by politicians who are hoping to get to power, and crap newspapers wanting to sell copies, just like here, so the parallels are there, in terms of how blame is used politically).

Rainynovember.

The very use of the word "uncontrolled immigration" is part of the problem, its a loaded term which brings to mind the same kind of images that were on UKIP posters.

Your points regarding funding, well its austerity which has been a policy of the Conservatives that has impacted most service elements, in fact falling immigration leads to lower tax revenues but doesn't have a corresponding fall in demand for services so services are less funded. Any arguments about the impact of immigration on services need to be tempered with the impact of austerity.

The point regarding impacts on the poor is true, the BOE found that a 10 percentage point increase in immigrants working in unskilled occupations leads to a 1.8 % decrease in wages for domestic worker.
Except we've never had a 10% percentage point increase in immigrants working in unskilled occupations, the highest we got was a 7% point increase between 2004 and 2006, further, the very poorest had this minor decrease offset by the increasing tax threshold from 2010.

I find the faux hand wringing for the poor a little bit much to take really, seeing as brexit and the inflation because of it will massively impact their spending power by more than immigration has.

I'd also question the whole "enough" rhetoric because areas of higher immigration invariably voted to remain whilst those with the lowest levels voted to leave.

Basically, the world over, papers have found that anger sells and politicians have found it gets them to power. Subtle points don't sell, they are not thrilling enough to lure people away from their phones and rich social lives, and I think that's what this hysteria boils down to, papers getting angry in turn at benefits scroungers, rapist Sharia-law-loving refugees, racist, sexist, homophobic unskilled Europeans, 'elites' (whatever that is)...
Papers just want to sell, you realise that, don't you? They don't care about the truth.
The truth happens to be what the previous poster said about immigration, as far as I know, but it wouldn't sell. Is there actual evidence of the contrary?

I find the faux hand wringing for the poor a little bit much to take really,

No faux hand wringing here.
I'm poor.
I voted leave.

I find the opposite tbh - the faux hand wringing is rife in posts such as:
brexit and the inflation because of it will massively impact their spending power by more than immigration has.

Those silly, silly poor people who don't know what's best for them etc.

You can be poor and still think on a higher intellectual plane than just wondering if your brew money will last the week.

You can be poor and have a further intellectual reach than 'because: immigrants'.

You can be poor and care about other stuff than money & immigrants.

You can be poor and have a basic grasp of economics.

Leavers have voted for inflation, specifically higher food, travel and energy costs.

I don't get much impression of 'higher intellectual' planes on this thread tbh.

"Those silly, silly poor people who don't know what's best for them etc."

You took that line not me, my point was that many people are justifying their leave vote because of the impact of immigration on the poor, which as pointed out was relatively minor yet inflation will be far more detrimental.

May is in India, she has been told to issue more visas for students if she wants trade, and she has said she would not increase visas (but they can use a faster lane at checkout in airports if they like ).
May is so scared of her people's allergy to immigration that she will sacrifice the economy, in or out of the EU.
Time to speak up if on reflection, you don't mind foreigners, whether from the ex-Empire or the EU, as a trade-off for a functioning economy.

I was responding purely to the 'faux hand wringing' comment.

There is far more faux hand wringing coming the other way imo.

There's more genuine handwringing, as Remainers are aware of the negative economic consequences.

(of Brexit)

You took that line not me, my point was that many people are justifying their leave vote because of the impact of immigration on the poor, which as pointed out was relatively minor yet inflation will be far more detrimenta

I am really fascinated how people come to these studies when its nigh on impossible to pin down the massive transient population we have in the UK. Poor people who move into poor lodgings in poor areas, work for cash in hand then move on?

I want immigration to this country to be based on the skills we need - so we need a hair dresser, anyone from all over the world can apply.

May thinks 52% voted for British jobs for British people, basically. Nevermind what Remainers think of Leavers, your PM is the one who thinks of the majority as nationalistic loons who can't bear to be told that they are going to have to accept more of any foreigners for the economic good.

as Remainers are aware of the negative economic consequences

Interesting and yet Frank Field, the lovely Labour MP who made a plea pre Ref Vote Leave for the Poor, (his constituency is birkenhead), was labeled a dreadful racist? His concerns have been repeatedly dismissed and crushed on these forums and I have been told repeatedly because the stats don't add up he must be telling porkies?

Autumn that would be a ridiculously small number of people, who work cash in hand and hide in bushes. So small as to be negligible.

Oh i see Fawful sorry, you obviously have access to some special data no one else in the UK has, to be such an authority on this.