If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

The reason I never applied for citizenship is that from my country in Europe, dual nationality was not allowed.

Also, If needed be, I could have got ten nationality through my British husband (married 20 years)

....only, in 2015 Theresa May changed the law, and it is now no longer possible to get British nationality through marriage.

And I can not get citizenship now, as there is a requirement that you must have had 5 years private health insurance.

So if there is a hard Brexit, people like me may be deported?! Despite being married to an English person and having children here?!

Oh wait,,they cannoy (yet) do that as I have a " right to family life" under European Human Rights... which Theresa May is looking to get rid off next.

Things have changed so quickly.

The main thing is that I did not know (was blissfully unaware) that immigrants like me were hated so much, by such a large part of the population.

It's been a rude awakening and one hell of a shock.

....only, in 2015 Theresa May changed the law, and it is now no longer possible to get British nationality through marriage.

No doubt to prevent 'marriages of convenience' but as usual, a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I would imagine that the situation applying to EU nationals is another one of those consequences that no one ever gave a moments thought to, and Cameron didn't expect to have to give thought to, because he expected Remain to win. The Official Leave campaign, as I recall, more or less promised that things would be the same for EU citizens as now.

The Home Office might have a meltdown like in the 19th Century when visas and passports were abolished in Europe to include the UK. Passports were reintroduced on a temporary basis in 1914 all over Europe for security reasons. In my view passports are just an administrative paper; they do not forge your national identity.

www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19838,00.html

Lico, thanks for explaining. Doing away with the right to obtain citizenship through marriage is pretty draconian. I wonder how many other developed countries don't allow this.

Blueshoes:
I have no idea about other countries but I think that there will be many legal challenges because these changes were brought in through the back door in 2015 and are retrospective which in itself is hardly 'legal''. I am not too worried because some of these 'new laws' are against human rights and will be challenged.

I wonder what Iam and others of like prejudices mind think about the fact that many British people who fall in love with non British people are already effectively exciled from their own country if their spouse is non EU and could well end up in the same situation if they fall in love with someone from a neighbouring country? I regard that as a serious erosion of my rights as a British Citizen and certainly not in the spirit of Empire that they claim to take such pride in. Just think, even the Queen might have that issue if she was to have fallen in love with Prince Philip post Brexit...... in fact was he not a stateless person? Bloody refugees, coming and taking our Princesses.....

Iam's argument that non EU citizens should have "commited" to British citizenship "just in case" Britian ever left the UK is pretty weak IMO - why would someone from an EU country that does not allow dual citizenship want to lock themselves out of all the rights EU citizens have to freedom of movement and the right to live in their country of origin in exchange for being allowed to live in Britian only? I'm British by birth and can't trace ancestry to anywhere else but I know I'd rather have freedom of movement and the choice of all the EU countries to live and work in than just the limited freedom to live in the UK!

Indeed lots of the leaders of the leave campaign have dual nationality don't they - that is the insurance/ security / cover all your bases option, not taking British citizenship and relinquishing one that gives you the whole of the EU!

Iam is labouring under a delusion if she thinks a UK passport on its own is a golden ticket! In fact it's becoming increasingly limited.

I just jumped through some dual nationality hoops I wouldn't have bothered with if not for Brexit - "another Brexit asylum seeker? Good for us, bad for Britian!" laughed the moderator at the citizenship test...

Keep your options open Iam or you'll only have yourself to blame for not covering your bases and nobody will have any sympathy when you and your kids are stuck in post Brexit Britian

*non British EU citizens

Lico, about the himan rights, I assume you mean the right to family life, article 8 ECHR?

Teresa May's government has already stated that after/during Brexit the ECHR is in for the chop too.

For someone who said she was a remainer, she certainly is an enthusiastic henchman for shipping off ALL foreigners!

I always imagined that Theresa May was a Remainer, because she thought that would be the winning side, rather than as a result of any sort of conviction.

Yes, I think that is very clear now

5more I already know people employed in pharma industries that are being told that to keep their jobs they need an EU passport. Luckily they have an Irish parent. Ironically the only one in my family to have that luxury is a Brexit voting member of the older generation who feels bizarrely that gives her something else over the "remoaners" It really is in many cases about people's egos and inverted snobbery, as well as more obvious prejudice.....

I completely agree with Iam.
People had the chance to become British citizens and many chose not to. Their choice. Rules change, they don't remain static.
If they were committed to this country they would have become citizens. Instead they chose to be European. To be "citizens of the world" whatever that means. It's childish nonsense.
Nobody is trying to split families. People are acting as if one spouse would have to leave and the others would be prevented from leaving with them. Of course not. Other family members who are British citizens can stay or leave as the choose.
If people can't commit to British citizenship then they should leave.

Trying British citizens are being presented with the choice of staying here without their spouses or having to leave. Families are being faced with being split apart by so called "British values". A British citizen who falls in love with someone who is American or Australian, or in my direct experience from Nepal or Cambodia or India or Hong Kong (the latter with a British overseas passport that the U.K. decided to only honour for UK residency if you had sufficient money) then they are exciled to a country which will offer them joint residency. And you are happy to see the same extended to those who fall in love with those from neighbouring countries. I honestly find those attitudes completely repugnant, as much with my child of Empire shoes on as my citizen of the world ones.

Not sure about May's remain credentials. Or integrity credentials, either.

Interesting article about how she was "determined to paint a negative picture of Britain’s relationship with Europe". Indeed, Nick Clegg accused her of tampering with the report to give a negative slant.

Wanted to suppress bits about how they give more in tax than take in benefits. Also, benefit tourism re EU nations and foreign criminals gaining entry bigged up. Of course, the UK don't seem to do what they are entitled to re non supporting eu nationals. So her being clear about clamping down on immigration rings hollow when she didn't do anything about the larger non EU levels. Is she blaming the EU for that too? Or the criminal checks and ability to remove non supporting EU nationals that aren't enforced?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/theresa-may-accused-trying-to-alter-immigration-report-before-brexit-vote

On a few of these threads, EU nationals are simply conflated with non EU and non UK nationals wrt taxes and other issues. It gives a false impression.

It certainly feels these are dodgy times with dodgy people at the forefront of things.

Cailleach So her being clear about clamping down on immigration rings hollow when she didn't do anything about the larger non EU levels. I don't think this is true at all. The removal of spousal rights, the illegal rounding up of overseas students on the dubious basis that the all those who sat a particular test no longer had a right to remain based on some irregularities at just one test centre, the culture in the Home Office that put refusing ahead of pragmatism and humanity. I think Theresa had an obsession with reducing non EU immigration that now stretches to all immigration. The fact that non EU immigration remained stubbornly above her target rather reflects that business science and academia continued to recruit talent from around the world. Indeed Vince Cable as business minister continually highlighted that her obsession was a barrier to business science and academia, and not good for the economy.

It was Cameron and the conservative apparatchiks who decided on a vote winning strategy of building up immigration as a problem that they could solve without considering the long term interests of the country. May just took her job as a cog in the wheel of party politics as opposed to the interests of the nation, very seriously indeed. We are getting more of the same from her Prime Minister.

I have a British child with SN who does not speak my native language and would struggle to learn it, what would happen to him if I had to leave?

I continue to be flabberghasted at the insularity that is becoming prevalent in this country, when I moved here in 1998 Britain's culture was very different.

If they were committed to this country they would have become citizens.

Baseless, unevidenced bullshit.

The cost and huge amount of red tape involved, as well as bureaucratic incompetence, are a pretty effective deterrent to people applying for permanent residence or citizenship, as a significant number of EU citizens are now experiencing.

The thing is, as a European livingin Britain, married to a Brit, yes, I did not foresee that the law wouldbe changed to:

• not allow me to claim British Nationality through marriage (May's 2015 law. Please note this happened BEFORE the Brexit vote!)

• not allowing me to get residency as I do not have 5 years private health insurance ( random requirement?! Impossible to fulfil now)

Those people say :" it's your fault for not seeing this coming" are possibly right....

I did not think the UK would turn into a country that would split up families and evict a mother or father who has lived here for 20 years with his/her Britsh partner, and British children.

In other first world countries, you see, such draconian human-rights violating practices do not happen.

So no, I did not see this coming. Britain is changing so quickly!

I have in 20 years here never been subjected to racism and xenophobia, never. Now I am not just unwanted and hated, I may actually get booted out.

I genuinely did not know Britain hated foreigners this much, I had never noticed it. So it's all a bit of a shock. Still getting my head around it.

Dorothy, I moved here in 98 too

It's a different country now

Exactly Ruby, how was I meant to anticipate these rule changes?

And why can't there be a rule that if you have been married for x number of years this means it qualifies you for naturalisation? After 18 years it can't really be called a marriage of convenience anymore

It twists my brain - really I want to say "sod it" and leave, but my children are British so I need to stay for them!

I have lived in London for over 20 years. I have always worked and paid my taxes. I have not commited any offenses and I am a good neighbour:-) How exactly would I be more commited to the UK if I had a British passport? Like a lot of foreigners I love my home country and I would love to live there and feel rather homesick, but I live here because I fell in love with my British DH and I made compromises. I go home once a month, I spend my holidays in my home country and I have property there. My children also have strong ties and have dual nationalities. My country does not allow dual nationality after the age of 18.

Reading that I should give up my nationality and commit to Britain makes me so angry. Its a completely ignorant and insular attitude, but these are the attitudes which are now taking over in this country. I already know so many people who are leaving. Its the resourceful people who will leave. I shudder to think who Britian will be left with as I don't think it was the people who create the most value in this country who voted for Brexit.

Ruby A small number of small minded individuals devoid of empathy and guided by the natural human tendancy to fear of others / xenophobia, which was also exploited by a self serving media and politicians, hate foreigners and the Brexit vote has given them Leave to express their hate. They do not speak for the majority, we are still as appreciative and welcoming of all those who came here to contribute to our family, cultural and economic life. I just hope that somebody can put these nasty little people back under their stones because Britain is becoming a very unpleasant divided society and many young / talented people are already leaving and will do so in greater numbers, both EU and British, if it continues.

Nobody is trying to split families.
Theresa May, as Home Secretary, has done exactly that. All because of a dogmatic assertion that we have too much immigration. Despite parading her Christian credentials as often as she can, being the daughter of a vicar, the world compassion appears not to feature in her vocabulary.

Should we be surprised, though? If we go back a few decades in history, weren't restrictions arbitrarily placed on Commonwealth citizens with British passports, which stopped them having the right to come and live in the UK? Some British passports became worth more than others.