If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

Peregrina Cabinet Papers that have just been released reveal that Geoffrey Howe and Thatcher discussed in Cabinet in 1989 how to avoid the possible refugee crisis that might emerge in Hong Kong as a result of the Tiannanmen crackdown, which many in Hong Kong were so concerned about that they were looking to move out of the colony. Hong Kong politicians were lobbying for the 3.25m British Dependent Territory passport holders to be granted right of abode in the U.K. and Howe had to concede that they could not be denied entry as the passport entitled them to visit. In the event just 50000, mainly high net worth individuals, were granted right of abode, and it is still a bone of contention. Most Hong Kong people who left found refuge in Canada.

A nasty rabid Brexiteer (possibly one of Aaron Bank's and UKIP's trolls) tried to exploit the resentment by pointing out on various expat and news forums that after refusing right of abode to British passport holders in Hong Kong, Britain was now allowing any Eastern European (specifically listing in a derogatory way the Eastern European countries ) into the country to live and work. He got short shrift I am glad to say.

"People had the chance to become British citizens and many chose not to. Their choice. Rules change, they don't remain static.
If they were committed to this country they would have become citizens. Instead they chose to be European. To be "citizens of the world" whatever that means. It's childish nonsense."

The childish nonsense is all yours, the nice little appeal to patriotism in there is pathetic. Making suggestions about "loyalty" etc is just jingoistic bullshit. People can't have foreseen this at all.

Don't worry folks, people already here will be granted indefinite right to remain without applying for citizenship and nasty little posters like trying will be disappointed.

Rules change, they don't remain static.
How do we know which rules will be changed next? Perhaps barring Muslims from jobs? I would have been tempted to say Jews, but even Theresa May can't be that ignorant of history. The woman certainly lacks compassion, but perhaps pragmatism will win her over, once she realises how dependant the economy is on people who were not born British.

once she realises how dependant the economy is on people who were not born British.

NI receipts will certainly take a beating. Never mind, it's not like there is an ageing population or an NHS crisis or anything.

By the time my friend had done it, it had cost her the best part of £5,000. She wasn't an EU citizen so don't know if that made a difference, (married to a British citizen). It's a lot of money to fork out if you're earning an average salary.

I think taking out British citizenship cost DIL £1500 two or three years ago. She is an EU citizen.

She wasn't doing it for that reason; being of mixed race she was more afraid of UKIP gaining power. Even then, as she says, having the correct paperwork wouldn't help her if a racist government got in - as it didn't help German Jews who had fought for their country in WW1 for example.

Having seen the attitude of some posters on here, I now can understand why fascism took hold in the 1930s.

darth, what is wrong with patriotism?

Whatwouldrondo, I take your point about May. However, she kept the 10's of thousands mantra going. Also, now it seems altered or/and gave false spins on reports to create a certain picture. If it is all based on lies, it is disingenuous in my eyes.

In relation to EU migrants, there is a provision for sending people home who are not self supporting after a certain amount of time. Yet May et al gave impression they were powerless. UK isn't even in Schengen for goodness sake. Passports have to be shown and checks can be made.

Nothing is wrong with patriotism Iam, however it shouldn't be confused with nationalism.

The pendulum swings continuously.

Societies are inherently not welcoming of foreigners. It is human nature is to be cautious of people who are not like us as a survival instinct. The EU project was admirable in creating a larger welcoming entity which we took for granted was a good thing that would last. I can understand if someone from the EU did not see the need to obtain British citizenship.

My country of origin is not from the EU. I have always needed a visa to live and work in the UK. At some point, having lived in UK for 12 years with a good job and having had 2 DC with Brit DH, I decided that I could not risk being deported and separated from my family for not having a British passport should the rules change, I took the life in the UK test and went through the paperwork and cost to obtain a British passport in 2010 even though I had to give up from country of origin who did not allow dual citizenship. This is because I could see even in 2010 a tightening of immigration policies and I could not assume that I would always be welcome in the country as a foreigner. Sadly, it appears that I was prescient. At the time, I was acting out of an abundance of caution.

I am as shocked as anyone else about the change in policy re: spouses of British citizens in 2015. I never realised the change would go that far. When I did what I did in 2010, I was thinking about wars which precipitated drastic changes in immigration policy. Not pulling up the drawbridge by stealth in the absence of an open threat.

If I were to apply for citizenship, I would lose my Norwegian one, which I am not willing to do. We will get married if I am asked to leave, as I am allowed dual citizenship only if I marry a British person. I am very fond of my heritage, and will not give this up willingly.

It's the changes brought in by stealth, which are worrying - few of us realise that it happened. Still, if enough people make a fuss, laws can be changed. The problem at the moment is that enough aren't making a fuss, and a number of people, as we see on this thread, welcome the changes made to immigration policies, so will never protest.

Purple, I think you need to read the thread where it was explained that the fact you are married to a Brit does not in itself allow you to remain in the UK. Marriage to a Brit scores you no points under the current citizenship policy.

I don't think you need to ever consider marrying your dp. Forget what Norwegian rules are re: dual citizenship. You will not get Brit citizenship anyway by marrying your dp. That ship has sailed in 2015.

I'm fairly confident people won't be asked to leave.

I'm fairly confident that FOM will remain in some form, most likely with people having to have a job prior to arrival and then Cameron's benefit agreement.

I'm fairly confident that most brexit supporters are going to be disappointed with the fudge.

A tory MPhas started a petition to abolish the rule demanding sahp Europeans have 5 years private heslth insurance under their belt to qualify.

OP There are some groups on Facebook that can offer support and advice for personal permanent residence card and citizenship applications, try "the 3 million" group for instance.

Apologies if you already know about it or if it's been mentioned upthread, I haven't RTFT.

I think Purplebluebird was explaining the Norwegian position, rather than the UK one.

The only good thing about all this, that I can see now, is that we are all much more aware of what's happening, in a way that we weren't before the Brexit vote.

Darth, I hope you are right, but don't fully share your confidence. I do agree that there will be a fudge, which I think will annoy both sides.

A lot of people on this thread are clearly motivated by what suits their own selfish needs. They want to stay in the UK.
Unfortunately for them this is all about what is best for this country not about what suits EU nationals who want to live here rather than their own country.
I am motivated by what is best for this country. Cutting immigration is much better for the UK. People here recognise this very clearly. The Brexit vote shows this. And I know there are many reasons why people voted for Brexit but I think this was the main one.
No one is asking EU citizens ( or those from Norway) to become UK citizens. I am, however, aghast when someone claims to be committed to staying here but says they are not prepared to give up citizenship of elsewhere. Some commitment.
And I don't think the country has changed. Immigration has increased dramatically.
I think if there was a referendum asking whether citizens of other EU countries should be granted leave to stay then you would get a resounding "no".
You continue to confuse the economic arguments with cultural and community values and cohesion. People ignored the economic arguments during the referendum campaign and they will continue to ignore them.
It is not all about money.

Your much mistaken, EU nationals will not be going anywhere, they will get the same rights granted as they do now. Its reciprocal see.

"cultural and community values and cohesion"

Yet you show none of these things with your nasty little xenophobic ways.

Your going to be sadly disappointed with what actually occurs.

Cutting immigration is much better for the UK.

Why? Who will staff our hospitals, care homes, pick fruit and increasingly teach in schools, esp for science teachers?

Well, care homes we know about - it's 'expats' ( i.e. immigrants) who decamped to Spain, but are now coming back for a few weeks to earn extra money. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/01/jet-in-carers-fly-benidorm-britain-amid-massive-care-crisis/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

Peregrina: "I think Purplebluebird was explaining the Norwegian position, rather than the UK one."

I get that.

I am merely pointing out that the Norwegian position on dual citizenship does not even come into play if Purple won't even be allowed to get British citizenship by marriage. Hence, the Norwegian position is irrelevant and based on a fundamental assumption by Purple that -marriage to a Brit will give her Brit citizenship in addition to her current Norwegian - is not true. Purple does not have a choice anymore. It is too late.

Yes, too late for me too

Despite 20 years married to a Brit

Lots of people don't know about that law change.

I did not, and I read the papers daily

Was it kept a bit quiet or did I just miss it?

Met my partner when he was getting his perm residency and umming and ahhing over whether or not to take citizenship (he's Indian so means giving up his Indian passport). I helped him reach a decision by asking if he could ever return to India (he came here young so only has UK work experience) - answer was an emphatic no. So he went for his UK citizenship. I personally think, like a prev poster suggested, if you like it you should put a ring on it & if you don't it's tough shit.

if you like it you should put a ring on it & if you don't it's tough shit.

Tough shit indeed, and what a way to run what we used to think of as a civilised country! As many are now finding out 'putting a ring on it' guarantees them nothing. They now find, even if they were married to a Britain that if they were e.g. staying at home to look after the family, that is no longer enough and that they needed comprehensive private health insurance.

My DH is not from the EU but overseas. He had indefinite leave to remain so technically didn't need citizenship but he got it anyway after living her for 10 years. The only reason he got it is because of the current political climate and the ease of going on holiday to the EU with a British passport which will be null and void soon! Anyway I would suggest that anyone that can become a citizen to do so. Yes it's very expensive but 15 years ago it was free so it's only going to go up. When he applied I was shocked at how they were constantly changing the rules. I'm so glad he's got it now especially with them mucking about with our human rights!