If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

Iam oh but it is the point that the UK has done very well from immigration, the thriving parts of the economy, Science, tech, banking , academia are thriving in part as a result of EU nationals, along with our health service, and the service economy generally. Getting hung up about whether somebody took on a load of unnecessary expensive bureaucratic red tape to become a citizen before the goalposts were unexpectedly (even to the Leave campaigners ) moved when they have been contributing to our economy and communities is going to cost us dearly in terms of both if they quite understandably leave.

I doubt all these people come here out of the goodness of their hearts. Nobody is here unless it's in their interest. If they go out of spite, then ok, their loss.

Wendy-
For some people , part of the problem is not lack of commitment but not being able to become a British Citizen due to changes in law (applied retrospectively) in 2015, courtesy of Theresa May.

There are now two stages to become a British Citizen .
First: obtain a Permanent Resident Permit piece of paper.
Second: apply for British Citizenship once you have the piece of paper for permanent residency (not a legal requirement to have the piece of paper).

30 per cent of EU nationals are being turned down for the Permanent Residency piece of paper which mean that they cannot apply for British Citizenship.

This is due to this private insurance requirement and by the Home Office using forms that are normally meant for non EU people. For instance , you have to list all your trips to the continent even your day trip visit to Paris or Disneyland.

By the way, being married to a British National and having British children in full time education are completely irrelevant to the Home Office.

iAm successful economies do not engage in arbitrariness and interfere with the legitimate expectations of people who make their homes and invest in those economies. Those left behind without transferable skills and trapped in an economy that engages in this kind of arbitrariness are the ones who will end up losing out in the long term.

Wow, some of the replies on this thread... I'm Australian (in fact have a first fleeter ancestor). My family (well, my generation) are at least 5 generations in Oz from wholly British ancestry... yet my great uncle, who flew with 7 Squadron in WWII had his nationality listed as British. 75 years later I've had to jump through many hoops and pay a lot of money to get ILR. I'm not complaining as such, just pointing out that things can change!

The 2015 change in the law for EU nationals might not be lawful because retrospective. We will see a lot of court cases.

www.freemovement.org.uk/eu-nationals-must-apply-for-permanent-residence-card-for-british-nationality-applications/

I doubt all these people come here out of the goodness of their hearts. Nobody is here unless it's in their interest. If they go out of spite, then ok, their loss

Wendy you are quite right. People will go where is best for them. More and more people that have the means will leave the UK and go to other countries.

Including UK citizens ......

Including UK citizens

Exactly, anyone, including British citizens, with the means, the money and the motivation will leave. The UK is hardly the best place in the world to live. So the UK will be left with those without means, money or motivation, and of course the xenophobes. It's going to be marvellous

Yes. One of the key USPs of the UK pre-Brexit was that the application of laws was predictable, clear and certain. Not necessarily fair, but crucially transparent, reliable and predictable. This is what has been lost by eg the failure to address clearly and robustly the rights of EU citizens already living in the UK. People like wendy don't seem to have any grasp of the significance of this to the long term health of the economy.

I doubt all these people come here out of the goodness of their hearts. Nobody is here unless it's in their interest

Some us came here as children and had no say in the matter!

Lico: "By the way, being married to a British National and having British children in full time education are completely irrelevant to the Home Office."

I had no idea. When I applied for British citizenship around 2010, I could apply on the basis of being married to a Brit for 3 years or having had 5 years permanent residency. I thought the former still applied.

It is pretty inhuman to break up families who are already in the UK where one parent is a Brit. Even the US has the Green Card. Am I misunderstanding??

I wonder how Theresa May squares her position with her words today:
These ambitions unite us, so that we are no longer the 52% who voted leave and the 48% who voted remain, but one great union of people and nations with a proud history and a bright future. So when I sit around the negotiating table in Europe this year, it will be with that in mind – the knowledge that I am there to get the right deal not just for those who voted to leave, but for every single person in this country.”

I don't see the caveat, "but not if you belong to another EU country and were a stay at home parent, and unaware that you needed health insurance. You can go hang, as far as I am concerned."

I wonder if anyone told her that the Empire no longer exists? She will no doubt like me have been brought up on tales of how wonderful the Empire was.

I read yesterday that UK immigration law has changed 44 times since 2010. EU freedom of movement law has changed 4 times in about 40 years. No wonder EU citizens are finding it hard to jump through the right right hoops, some of which didn't exist 5 years ago. I'd guess that, so far, those applying for PR (and being turned down in about a third of cases) are those with the most secure claims. The refusal rate will probably rise signficantly once all EU citizens are required to seek paperwork in order to stay.

We forget in all of this that citizenship is not a right; the home office approach is to refuse if at all possible. Even in countries with a more friendly equivalent of the HO, naturalisation is always at the discretion of the host nation - even if you meet the criteria.

I've been living in an EU state for 18 years and remain a British citizen; I've never sought local citizenship, although I have qualified for over a decade, mainly because it's such a hassle and it's never been necessary. We have taken local citizenship for our children via a much simpler process, but naturalisation will take up large amounts of time that I mostly (as a full time working parent) don't have. My current plan is to wait a bit, as my French children will give me the right to a residence permit for at least the next five years (when youngest reaches 18). After that I think I'm increasingly coming to the op's opinion (expressed in another thread) that I may not be prepared to stay in a country that doesn't want me. Or I may just stick around illegally since I'll be last in line when the deportations start (well paid job, long employment history, involvement in public service). They'll kick out all the British pensioners first.

"But if it were not for high immigration the number of children requiring a place would be much smaller and the planners would need to plan for fewer places."

In relation to EU workers, the amount available for the funding for school places would also be reduced in their absence of their taxes. It would be interesting to see if the amount in tax etc. covers the offspring of EU migrants in the UK. If so, I'm sure they would also wonder why the extra tax has not gone into funding a place for their child.

"At present the birthrate here is higher amongst mothers born outside the UK. This will result in more school places being needed in a few years time."

'Outside the UK' is comprised of many, many more countries than are in the EU. The whole world. This is in relation to EU nationals, right. What is the relative statistic for birthrate of EU nationals and UK nationals? Then the contribution of their taxes which should cover their children's school place, begging the question why that place is not being adequately provided.

Blueshoes:
This is totally correct. Being married to a British National or having British Children in full time education is irrelevant to acquire the Permanent Residency piece of paper (which is not a legal requirement to reside in any EU country including the UK).

I have already posted this on another thread (from my lawyer as I was incredulous(:

'It was explained by N. that whilst EEA nationals have the right of free movement in the UK, in order to apply for permanent residence, the Home Office requires you to have spent a continuous period of five years in the UK as what it describes as a ‘qualified person’. A ‘qualified person’ is either a student, a worker, a self-employed person or a self-sufficient person, and as discussed, in order to qualify as a student or self-sufficient, sickness insurance must be held.

I am appalled by some of the people on this thread.
Even more so when I realise that if people do leave then we will be left with more people like Iamwendy here.

I am British. My husband is European. We live here and raise our kids here.
It has never once occurred to either of us to get him British citizenship. Why would we? He (and I) love his country. We love being a family with dual cultural heritage. His country does not allow dual citizenship, so to become British Citizen he would have to give up his own nationality. We travel to his country once a year, why on earth would we consider severing ties there in order to gain an entirely unecessary (until now) peice of paper here?

In the modern world there are many of us that have joint/dual loyalties. As a family we are 100% British and 100% Dutch. Our children have the freedom to choose.

Loosing this is one of the great sadnesses to me of Brexit. One that many people simply don't get. I feel like Brexit is asking us to cut ourselves into smaller peices to fit into the new Britain. How inexpressably sad it is.

"At present the birthrate here is higher amongst mothers born outside the UK. "

That is a pretty blunt statistic though. I am a mother born outside the UK. Was not born in the EU though and was British from birth - so you can't get rid of me or my children, sorry!

Steppe: am not really surprised by some of the jingoistic comments on this thread which stem from ignorance and a perverse pleasure in hurting other people; this gives them a sense of superiority, status and power (well , best to ignore them.. this is .probably the only joy they get in their lives.).

I think that there are two issues:

1. some people do not wish to acquire British Citizenship (their choice-to be respected)
2. some people wish to acquire British Citizenship but are being prevented by new legislation brought in in 2015. This new legislation (might be illegal because applied retrospectively) now requires that a Permanent Residency piece of paper must be held prior to applying for British Citizenship. Happy New Year!

Can I ask a question?

What voting rights do non uk citizens have?

All these examples of people living here so long, paying taxes but was that without being able to vote?

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

Beebeeeight - cant vote national but can vote locally.

I have everything in place to get my British citizenship but am hesitant. My native country doesn't encourage dual nationality but currently I and my family can have dual nationality. ( recent changes to law made this possible).
I just don't want to loose my original nationality, that's my identity, that's who I am... BUT I will apply for my citizenship asa I have renewed my passport ( valid for 10 years ) as there are to many uncertainties and don't want to end up having to leave the UK or play the tick the boxes game to stay...

Bee:
Which non UK citizens are you referring to? EU or Non EU?

EU Citizens in UK can only vote in local elections (including Mayoral) and European elections. They are not allowed to vote in any General Elections.

Don't forget that EU citizens of Malta and Cyprus are also Commonwealth citizens, so can vote in those elections that Commonwealth citizens can vote it. I don't suppose anyone stopped to think about that.