Does what make me most sad about Brexit make other leave voters sad?

[TooTiredToTidy]

The saddest thing for me of all about Brexit (and there are soooo many) is that it's the country I was born in and have loved and been proud of all my life isn't the one I knew after all. I recently re-watched the London 2012 opening ceremony and it made me super sad because I remember being so proud of my country as I saw it - multicultural, diverse, open, tolerant, celebrating of knowledge, achievement, working together, ensuring fairness prevailed.

And since I've found out it isn't. There is more racism and more xenophobia than I realised. I found out so many of my countrymen have been simmering with so much anger, that what I thought was a bit of nostalgia is actually a real desire to live in the rose-tinted past, that we are sick of experts, that we so hate being part of the EU we are fine to screw over our the youth who overwhelming wanted to remain scientists (ditto) Scotland (ditto) Northern Ireland (ditto) etc. That we are more little England than Great Britain.

The huge rise in hate crime post Brexit has not personally impacted me but has impacted people I know. People who do and don't come from the EU have been told to 'go back to where you come from' and when speaking a foreign language told to speak English.

This German woman who rang into LBC radio show literally made me cry and feel heartbroken: www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-now-german-woman-hit-by-xenophobia-calls-james-in-tears-132971

I know not many leave voters will have directly anticipated all these things happening but I want to know how they feel about them themselves? Other online trolls/posters I've asked just deny the rise in hate crime or say you can't believe everything you hear and say it's not happening. It is happening.

Equally if you've experienced something yourself as either an immigrant or is hate crime related I'd really like to hear about it.

OP, you're so right. It's a double whammy - it's not just that it's suddenly happened, it's that, all this time I was proud of my country, I'd been living a lie - we really are and have always been a nation of small-minded duplicitous bigots, desperately trying to legitimise our racist ignorance with post-truths about how the EU is racist. You can rest assured, that had the referendum been about the rest of the world, the mouth-breathers would have voted with exactly the same amount of insular xenophobia.

we really are and have always been a nation of small-minded duplicitous bigots you say and then talk about "mouth-breathers"

Have you absolutely no self awareness at all?

it is remainers who are the xenophobic hate filled group, whilst Leavers want to embrace the world, rather than just a rich white part of it

The most deluded thing I've read on MN for quite some time. This is not evident at all in my experience, and I'm not the only one by the looks of the responses here.

Maybe people in the uk don't want the green belt completely built over

On a kind-of-telated note, it's worth considering that an awful lot of the legislation that protects British wildlife originates from the EU. We really do stand to lose so much more than I think a lot of people realise.

Carol are you one of those proper left wing leave voters, like Jeremy Corbyn really secretly wanted to be? if so, hats off to you.
But I don't think you typify a leave voter, if I'm honest.

Re non-EU immigrants - who I agree have to meet what are sometimes unreasonable and inhumane criteria (such as the spousal earnings requirement), it's important to emphasise that the government's objective to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands will require non-EU immigration to fall to less than half current levels.

Do you Brexiters agree with this objective (to reduce net immigration below 100k)? Cos you're a bunch of hypocrites if you do ;)

Do you Brexiters agree with this objective (to reduce net immigration below 100k)? Cos you're a bunch of hypocrites if you do

Why would that be hypocritical Misti?

Because you can't concern-troll about how unfair it is that non-EU migrants find it harder to move to the UK while supporting a policy that would see non-EU migration cut in half

Oh, I'm with you. So you were only addressing the leavers who are concerned about equality of EU migrants with non-EU migrants? Thought you meant leavers generally.

No, I was specifically referring to the leavers on this thread telling us how brexit will mean more non-EU immigrants. This is not government policy. They went to reduce total immigration to well below current levels of non-EU migration alone. What's more, they believe that you leavers gave them a mandate to do this.

So wrongtrouser are you arguing that the government is incorrect in this belief?

Regarding the op, I know exactly what you mean. I am an "EU migrant", if you want to call it that. I have lived here 19 years, have a British dh, three British children, have been a school governor, volunteered in various ways and work as a teacher.

My feelings are similar to finding out that a partner has cheated on you. I feel devastated and unsettled and on the verge of depression.

I am 100% Remain and have been heartbroken over this. The EU staff I work with (in the supposedly liberal suburb of London) have seen a big rise in the number of comments about their English or worse.

The Leave voters are right to say they are not all one group and did not vote for the same reasons, but I don't think you will get an answer to the question here of whether they are also distressed by the increase in xenophobia (or expression of xenophobia) unleashed by the vote. Ultimately, Cameron opened Pandora's box and should be held culpable for the vote which should never have happened and which broke Britain as we know it.

"No, I was specifically referring to the leavers on this thread telling us how brexit will mean more non-EU immigrants. This is not government policy. "

Just to add my tuppence worth. I remember during the referendum campaign, there was a programme showing leave campaigners in some midland or northern town. They were canvassing in an area with a large Asian population. They were putting out the notion that with less EU migrants, there would be a trade off and they would find it easier to bring their relatives to the UK. They were definitely saying less of them means more for you.

Also, who can forget the 'Save the British Curry'. Bringing people in to work and giving them a low wage which wouldn't pass the normal wage bar muster for immigrants.

So, maybe not government policy. However, every whisper seems to be giving a mandate to Theresa May at the moment. Or so she maintains. Irrespective of whether it was a policy by Gov't or not.

whilst Leavers want to embrace the world

Can people please stop posting this

Everytime i reread it i hear Micheal Jacksons 'we are the world

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Its driving me mad

I havent even been able to get to the end of the thread, so apologies if someone else is struggling as well

Also, nationality of a country in the EU is not colour based. Thank goodness. So going on about 'white' EU people is a bit of a strange focus.

Sorry OP

I agree with your post

These people were obviously like this already but it does seem like they feel they can say it in 'polite company' now and that they will be supported

Misti I don't believe that the referendum result gives the government a mandate to reduce non-EU migration, no. However I do believe that most people want to see overall immigration numbers reduced (polls were pretty consistently around 70% of the population thinking this, before the referendum campaigns started), so I think the government are correct to pursue this aim.

but I don't think you will get an answer to the question here of whether they are also distressed by the increase in xenophobia (or expression of xenophobia) unleashed by the vote

I am distressed by any increase in expression of xenophobia. I am also distressed by any other name-calling, insulting, denigrating comments and attempts to paint some people as somehow less human and valued than others (see GF01's post at 14.52 "mouth-breathers" ffs).

Would you like to comment MsJuniper on the less-educated-working-class-and-older-people-ophobia unleashed by the referendum?

Do polls give gov't mandates now? Like referenda.

Nobody asked me.

Should the UK just do a poll instead of having elections? As everybody seems to argue they give a democratic, irrefutable mandate for something or other.

It's in the Conservative manifesto, that is the mandate.

I mentioned the polls to highlight that they have general support from the population.

TooTired
Yep I fully agree with you.
The country we are living in has changed a hell of a lot.
Or maybe it hasn't changed, it's just that we can now see what was before under veneer but is now in full light (and acceptable).

"We want to expand the Single Market, breaking down the remaining barriers to trade and ensuring that new sectors are opened up to British firms.”

This was also in the Con's manifesto. Does the incompatibility of this with leaving the EU mean they have to go back to the electorate? Or just do a poll on their position as the Gov't so as to gauge the general level of public support for their governance.

Dorothy same here.
I am also astonished by how passive the overall population has been and how little reaction there has been, from all sides (people, politicians etc...) on the fact that the country has changed its values so much. Tolerance, being open to the outside world and being respectful of others.
It seems to me that those values are only for British people not for others nowdays ....

“I am a British citizen who has lived in America for the past six years – working hard, contributing to society, paying my taxes and bringing up our four children in the place they now call home.

Now, me and many others like me are being told that we may not be welcome. It’s deeply troubling that I will have to tell my children that Daddy might not be able to come home – to explain why the President has introduced a policy that comes from a place of ignorance and prejudice

Replace the US by the UK, his name by the name of millions eu citizens living legally in this country and you will get the just of it.

This was also in the Con's manifesto. Does the incompatibility of this with leaving the EU mean they have to go back to the electorate? Or just do a poll on their position as the Gov't so as to gauge the general level of public support for their governance

Yes, it's pretty complicated this democracy malarky, what with the referendum result, and all. Perhaps it would be better if they just asked you what they should do.

Sorry, that was unnecessarily snitty, apologies

Maybe what it means is that the Con should have triggered a general election (after the referendum) as their manifesto was opposite to 'the will of peole' and therefore they do NOT represent the population anymore and do not have mandate.....
That's assuming of course that people did vote for their manifesto and fully agreed to it.
And that, if they had been so against the EU, they would have voted for another party, such as UKIP.