Does what make me most sad about Brexit make other leave voters sad?

[TooTiredToTidy]

The saddest thing for me of all about Brexit (and there are soooo many) is that it's the country I was born in and have loved and been proud of all my life isn't the one I knew after all. I recently re-watched the London 2012 opening ceremony and it made me super sad because I remember being so proud of my country as I saw it - multicultural, diverse, open, tolerant, celebrating of knowledge, achievement, working together, ensuring fairness prevailed.

And since I've found out it isn't. There is more racism and more xenophobia than I realised. I found out so many of my countrymen have been simmering with so much anger, that what I thought was a bit of nostalgia is actually a real desire to live in the rose-tinted past, that we are sick of experts, that we so hate being part of the EU we are fine to screw over our the youth who overwhelming wanted to remain scientists (ditto) Scotland (ditto) Northern Ireland (ditto) etc. That we are more little England than Great Britain.

The huge rise in hate crime post Brexit has not personally impacted me but has impacted people I know. People who do and don't come from the EU have been told to 'go back to where you come from' and when speaking a foreign language told to speak English.

This German woman who rang into LBC radio show literally made me cry and feel heartbroken: www.lbc.co.uk/im-so-scared-now-german-woman-hit-by-xenophobia-calls-james-in-tears-132971

I know not many leave voters will have directly anticipated all these things happening but I want to know how they feel about them themselves? Other online trolls/posters I've asked just deny the rise in hate crime or say you can't believe everything you hear and say it's not happening. It is happening.

Equally if you've experienced something yourself as either an immigrant or is hate crime related I'd really like to hear about it.

I voted leave and I feel extremely saddened by the increase in xenophobia and hate crime that has occurred. If we had it to do again, I think I would vote the same, but I would work damn hard to prevent these crimes and the feelings that give rise to them from arising. I wonder if the feelings were there anyway, and that they need to come out into the open to be addressed.

What also saddens me is the way the vote polarised the UK into two camps, so that those of us who voted leave are suspected of being xenophobic, ill-educated, and I don't know what else. I have two degrees and am married to an immigrant but people judge me by my opinion on Europe and sometimes put me in a box where I don't belong.

Leaving the EU will close some doors, but it opens others and only history will judge what was the right choice. In my opinion we are making it a bigger deal than it need be because we fear change and the unknown.

But the French ambition to preserve its language has not really worked so well - despite everything, more and more signs, TV programmes, music, and words, are in English every time I go there.

So yes, maybe they have tried to fight a tide longer and harder - and largely against American English - but language and culture don't work like that. It's the same with the traditional cockney accent, being replaced by a more general Estuary - and regional dialects of all kinds becoming less idiosyncratic and more generic.

We're a big country as well as a big planet - I think fighting to keep a street in (say) North Yorkshire 'British' is as futile (and ultimately sad and pointless) as it is to keep 'southern' brands, tastes, dialects, and media off that same street.

There's something else that makes me sad as a remain voter.
The immediate vitriolic glee with which most remain voters seemed to hysterically lump all leave voters in the same boat. 'Racist, uneducated, ignorant, poor etc'. Some were, that's beyond doubt, just as some remain voters won't have been open to discussion either. People shouted others down in both sides but leavers that I know we're quite happy to have a lively debate over the issue and even (gasp) appear to sound well educated on the subject. The utter and incomprehensible disbelief that a sizeable part of the country had a different opinion to those who took such a holier than thou attitude was and remains pathetic.
DH voted leave, I voted remain. We had some good talks about it and always agreed to disagree however one thing he said almost made me change my mind - if the referendum was asking us to join the EU as it is right now how would you vote?
It's an interesting point I think.

ocean can I ask how you would prevent the rise of xenophobia? And are you doing any of that now? It's never too late to do so IMO.

Re assuming that Leavers are illiterate?
I wouldnt say so myself, I have plenty of Leavers around me that are well educated (I'm lucky to live in a fully Leave area....).
But have a look at the stats and you will see, only two things correlate with voting Leave and it's low level of education and being older.
It's doesn't mean some well educated people won't have voted Leave. Or that older generation won't have voted Remain.
But as a general brush? Unfortunately yes.

would like to see all those foreign shops, hairdressers etc gone from our high streets No I would like them catering for one unifying culture, not segregating us into different cultures and making us feel isolated.

How low would you like to see animal welfare and food standards go once we leave the EU? I would like welfare increased and all animals stunned before they are killed.

I'm having trouble seeing what exactly it is you are hoping to return to I am not wanting to return to anything, I want to move towards one British culture that is tolerant and accepting of visitors. As opposed to the current collection of numerous segregated factions all jostling against each other trying to promote their own cultures agenda.

it's worth it for the sake of a feeling that some have which is hard to put into words? Yes because that feeling is translated into actions.

and it's the fact of faith and free schools possibly, but its also as a result of one culture concentrating in an area which means only children of that culture go to the local school and promulgate the isolationism.

SeekEvery And that is the problem every time anyone tries to debate or explain what being British is they are just put down as racist. And that is a big reason why we voted to leave the EU.

Less education, being older, and also not living where there is much diversity, all correlated.

Obviously not everyone with a degree is automatically cleverer that someone who isn't, but whatever you make of it, that's the correlation.

'One unifying culture' eh? I think someone's been there before you on that one...

So yes, maybe they (the french) have tried to fight a tide longer and harder - and largely against American English - but language and culture don't work like that.

I agree with that but when the language and culture changes so fast that the current population doesn't have time to acclimatize then you leave people feeling like aliens in their own country.

The world doesn't start and end in Europe there's a whole other three quarters of the planet that the UK can now freely create trade deals with and experience.

Yes, there's a big wide world out there.
We've woken up and it looks as if a lot of other countries in the EU are finally seeing things for what they really are.

We were one of the main contributors. The other main contributors aren't going to want to be left, on their own, to effectively prop up the newer (poorer) members .
The whole thing is a house of cards about to come toppling down any minute.
I'm glad we got out when we did.

I'll put my hand up and answer the question. I voted leave and no I am not happy with the racists and xenophobic attacks. I didn't vote the way I did because I hate Europe but because I believe the EU itself is harmful overall. I do believe we as a nation benefit from FOM but I don't like what it does to poorer nations.

You want hairdressers, shops and restaurants to cater for one unifying culture. So in concrete terms, what would this look like? You don't want specialist shops, if that speciality is related to a particular country or culture?

Less education, being older, ....

Why is someones level of intelligence or age put into this category of 'xenophobic little Englanders'. Their opinion is as valid as everyone else's, possibly even more so, as they are more likely to be the in the 'more vulnerable' and 'left behind' category.

Seek I'm not ignoring your question about British culture - will reply when I have gathered my thoughts

This result is not the fault of David Cameron. It is to his credit that he asked the people to decide. We signed up to be part of a common market not a geopolitical area of wealthy western nations.
It is not a huge mistake. It is the best thing that has happened in a very long time.
And for the record, my trilingual young son who has lived in two other EU states voted leave,
We are not denying young people the opportunities afforded by FOM. The vast majority of our young people do not want to live and work in the EU. A very small proportion of our youngsters go abroad to work or live. Some professionals might well do but not the average kid.
It is the rich carping because their kids might not be able to do Erasmus.
I believe immigration from the EU is way too high. We need an immigration policy that meets the needs of this country, not the EU.

Excellent post janie

You don't want specialist shops, if that speciality is related to a particular country or culture? When they are in tourist areas catering for visitors I dont mind them. But when they become ubiquitous across the whole country you are separating communities and creating cultural enclaves that never have to integrate. I want an integrated country where we can all come together.

But nobody's saying 'xenophobic little Englanders', or that anyone's vote means less based on his or her educational background. Butt those three factors (living in areas with less diversity, being older, being less educated) manifestly correlated with the leave vote.

Your vote isn't 'more valid' because you think you're going to get left behind, any more than mine is because that wasn't my main fear or concern. I'd like to think we all voted beyond what we perceived to be just our own interests anyway!

Just to clarify - the data shows nothing about people's intelligence or even knowledge - it relates to people's formal qualifications - not the same thing.

Level of formal education is very tightly correlated with employment status, wealth, opportunities and class and whether you are experiencing the positive effects (travel for work, multinational work projects eg scientific research, renting out your buy-to-let, etc) or the negative effects (housing and services pressures, wages and conditions driven down etc) of being in the EU.

It wasn't a right or wrong question and the better educated got it right. People voted according to their own experiences and wishes, and all votes are equally valid.

What are these shops that are ubiquitous across the whole country? 'Tourist areas' - so basically foreigners are welcome as long as they're rich and prepared to go home after a fortnight?

People are saying xenophobic and little Englanders, just read back though this thread and others. Its flung about all the time.

People's formal qualifications certainly don't say everything about their intelligence or knowledge.

But they don't say nothing, either.

seek

Food shops i would think

Cant thnk of any others

Ubiquitous food shops selling food I don't necessarily want, all over the country!

so basically foreigners are welcome as long as they're rich and prepared to go home after a fortnight?

NO, I am saying foreigners are welcome if they integrate into our society/culture. As opposed to just creating a ghetto in one section of town and expecting everyone else to change for them.

But they can just have their shops in the tourist areas? For visitors? That'll make them feel welcome!