The blame for Brexit. Its not those who voted to leave.

[RBeer]

Something has been puzzling me for a while and i have yet to read it anywhere.

I know people who voted for the referendum by voting Tory , voted to remain and yet blame the brexit on those who voted leave.

Surely the blame should be squared directed at those who elected that King of Spades, Cameron, into government.

You cant blame the child for shooting himself in the face if it was you who handed him the gun.

This is what I don't understand, to get a clear mandate to leave the EU, a majority of the electorate surely had to vote for it, the leave campaign did not get close to this figure, only achieving 37 per cent, so why are we now leaving the EU?

The question was, shall we stay in the EU or leave the EU?

On your basis of a clear mandate, there was no mandate to remain in the EU.

tiggytape-the referendum certainly set the spotlight on FPTP and the way huge swathes of voters are not represented in parliament, I think this is part of what I was trying to say, this vote has thrown up so many questions about the way in which we're governed and brought so many of the divisions in our society out into the light, it's a real opportunity to address these and to try to bring people back together. Rather than address any of this our politicians are busy hiding behind a questionable referendum result, which as Caroldecker points out didn't really mandate anything. I guess I just don't really want to blame anyone for Brexit, I just want to try and heal the rifts in our country and come out of this stronger than we went in.

it's a real opportunity to address these and to try to bring people back together. Rather than address any of this our politicians are busy hiding behind a questionable referendum result, which as Caroldecker points out didn't really mandate anything.

I agree with this - it would appear that an opportunity to affect real change will be wasted.

I do wonder what would have happened had the result been even closer. At what stage would the politicians said that for practical purposes it was a dead heat? And then what?

Well, Farage had said that he would continue with his campaign, and there is no reason to suppose that he wouldn't have done.

But the election votes showed that a lot of people wanted UKIP, particularly in the North. Not sure that Leave was that much of a protest vote.

4 million people voted UKIP which is rather scary whatever your opinion of the EU.

Well it has been cited as much by lots of people interviewed in the North, Carol.

Its as much of a factor in the leave vote as those who voted out for democracy and sovereignty, immigration fears or whatever reason. It links very well into the elites narrative used by the leave camp too.

Its an uncomfortable truth for those who feel that their reasons are valid for voting leave.

Maybe the protest was they had voted UKIP in the millions and got no representation in parliament, not that they loved the EU but were protesting against something else.

No one said they loved the EU, but many of the protest votes seem to be about "That London" and "not being listened to".

Its interesting cause the Government we have right now isn't going to increase investment in the North East!

"Its interesting cause the Government we have right now isn't going to increase investment in the North East!"

The government want done more for the north east than other governments. They want to improve rail links with hs2. They are looking at the funding formula of schools which may well favour non London schools. Certainly OFSTED is breathing down the necks of teachers in deprived parts of the U.K.

There is lot of guff about a "northern powerhouse". Quite what this means no one is sure.

Good intentions are not enough. What the govement thinks might help th north east is different to want the inhabitants might a want. Unfortunately, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

All this navel gazing is odd.

Stuff happens - 'Events dear boy, events'

Brexit is another event.

Events affecting people/ lives/ politics/ politicians can be - crash in commodity prices eg oil, mining (countries like Brazil are in deep doodoo due to crash in mining industry), nuclear power plants damaged (Japan, chernobyl), overspending/corruption (Fannymae house crash, banks and bankers lying/corrupt), extreme weather (lots of places), wars (lots of places), anti-terrorism precautions affecting daily life, rise in house prices, crash in house prices (I've lived through both) etc etc etc

Brexit is being treated as if it is the end of the world, come back in a couple or three years and we'll all be tootling along as usual. Calm down folks.

The 2008 banking crash lost people millions of savings. It's not even talked about now ditto much of the above.

come back in a couple or three years and we'll all be tootling along as usual

2 to 3 decades.
Now, will you be still as nonchalant.

Careful MissMargie nothing annoys these remainers more than pointing out the common sense, obvious fact that we will be fine, quite probably flourishing outside the the bloated, corrupt behemoth the EU morphed into.

The government want done more for the north east than other governments. They want to improve rail links with hs2.

HS2 is going to go nowhere near the north-east, which is already, as it happens, accessible by an electrified line.

Places like Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield are a long way from the North East.

Miss Margie I think the big difference is that this damage was self inflicted and avoidable - and because nobody can provide a rational explanation for their decision or any sense of what is going to happen next.

There's a lot of confirmation bias going on among people who voted for this 'this is just another uncertainty - blah blah'. They shouldn't be surprised that others can't join in.

Actually I think a bit of calming down and perspective is exactly what we need, I'm a remainer and we need to talk about this vote, what does it mean in reality? When politicians say "the people have spoken" what is it they have said and why? Crucially taking the leave vote as the starting point do people generally prioritise staying in the single market or would people be more comfortable with a clean break? Our politicians are completely jumping the gun trying to negotiate internationally before these questions are settled internally, but do the hard work now, really talk through what these options mean locally and nationally, work out how those in power can support communities through these times and I think yes we can start to move on positively.

Glad to see Miss Margie appreciating the depth of the crisis we have inflicted on ourselves. Thankfully,nthough she may not talk about the 2008 financial crash, plenty of people do, especially the people who are implementing the processes and regulations to make sure it does not happen again. Except a lot of those have flowed from the EU and David Davies is talking up the side of the City that want to do away with them so they can go back to taking bigger risks and laundering money and banking for crooks and oligarchs worldwide. So it is actually vital we keep talking about the Financial crash or Britain could be left open for another one.

The Phillip Hammond announcement today is interesting.

Guaranteed funding till 2020 for all projects with EU funding currently, and up till this Autumn statement.

Its good but it sounds better than it is, as we will not now have left the EU before 2019 all of these projects will have EU funding anyway! The likelihood is that many of them will retain funding in 2020 because even if we leave the EU, there will still be payments from the UK going there for a few years till the balances are settled.

Its great that he has confirmed it, and it means that those projects applying now might get funding when they wouldn't have done, but anything on going was going to continue to get funding until the exit is complete and all balances cleared.

That is good

I agree, and it takes away some of the uncertainty that some projects will be having.

I do think its slightly misleading though as the EU will be paying in till we leave, and its only for projects agreed before the autumn statement.

I'd hope that it means that areas that were due to recieve money for economic development will still get it, but because of the way this is distributed I'm not sure.

It's a fairly meaningless sop to science and farmers.

It doesn't mean anything for anyone seeking funding for longer-term projects.

All it really amounts to is pledging around a year's funding to win the 2020 election.

The government want done more for the north east than other governments. They want to improve rail links with hs2.

That has to win the funny comment of the day!

Oh my.

Would you like a map of the UK and NI?
Whilst we are at it, can we pass one of the UK and Europe around whilst we are at it.

The north east comment is hysterical, you know Manchester is west right?

Would this be the north east that had had the largest cutsb to council budgets, where the regional development agency has been binned? Where unemployment is significantly higher than the national average?

Generally the level of input from leavers here had indicated a few definite things.