The blame for Brexit. Its not those who voted to leave.

[RBeer]

Something has been puzzling me for a while and i have yet to read it anywhere.

I know people who voted for the referendum by voting Tory , voted to remain and yet blame the brexit on those who voted leave.

Surely the blame should be squared directed at those who elected that King of Spades, Cameron, into government.

You cant blame the child for shooting himself in the face if it was you who handed him the gun.

And Malice if you want to see real motivation and commitment to the economic success of their country translated into making a real fist of it then you should be looking to those emerging economies, as opposed to a country where a sense of entitlement is causing Americans to support a fear mongering divisive narcissist,. That Trump has got this far does not look the product of positivity to me.

he sensed that to leave it any longer would bring a turn in the tide as it were.

He should have done a damn sight more than 'sensing' - he should have got out there and found out the mood of the country, starting with his own supporters (e.g. those out of the Leasdom mould, of which there are many.)

But then, this is the man who wanted to be prime minister because 'he thought he'd be good at it'. Whatever happens though, you know that he and his wife being extremely wealthy individuals will be OK.

He should have done a damn sight more than 'sensing' - he should have got out there and found out the mood of the country, starting with his own supporters (e.g. those out of the Leasdom mould, of which there are many.) *

No. You have to blame the adults that put him in charge.

Problem is, Beer, what you're basically saying is that people shouldn't be able to vote: whether for the Tories or for Brexit. You know better than them what's best. It's a shame they have this vote, as they just misuse it.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.

I would argue, and did before the Referendum, that we don't normally conduct our politics by way of Referenda, as some other countries routinely do, but have a system of Parliamentary democracy. An issue as complex as this should never have been put to a binary vote but should have been thrashed out via Parliamentary debate.

Peregrina, 100%. Ask a simplistic question about a hugely – dauntingly –complex issue, and you'll get.. well, frankly, the answer you deserve.

"Re:: Blackpool sea front - you do know (ReallyTired and others) that these were decisions taken by the UK ...central, regional and local ... to put these projects forward for EU funding. Nothing was imposed on Blackpool by the EU (despite how some of the press would like to spin it). Simply factually untrue."

So what you are saying is the EU had the final say whether Blackpool would get the grant to tart up the seafront. It makes you wonder how much money has been wasted by bureaucrats applying for the money and then EU bureacrats deciding whether to fund the project. Post Brexit the central UK government could allocate funding to Blackpool council to spend as the see fit. Maybe there might be some money left over for social care.

The debate is not whether it's a good idea to tart up the seafront, it's whether the voters want their money spent in that way.

ReallyTired No, I am saying the exact opposite! The UK drives the selection of projects which are eligible to receive EU funding. The EU checks to make sure that the project put forward meet the eligibility criteria for the scheme.

The real q is, will the UK gov actually find the money to replace the funds previously provided by the EU ( or will savings ie cuts be made?)

*Problem is, Beer, what you're basically saying is that people shouldn't be able to vote: whether for the Tories or for Brexit. You know better than them what's best. It's a shame they have this vote, as they just misuse it.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.*

No I would not be comfortable with that either. I am one for the natural order of things to play out. The vote will be the ruin of the UK but it may shine a light on internal party politics and the racist right wing media. And, I also believe that the EU will be better without the British playground politics.

It makes you wonder how much money has been wasted by bureaucrats applying for the money and then EU bureacrats deciding whether to fund the project.

Wouldn't it be the Local Authority applying for funding? If you don't like what your Local Authority does in your name then start voting, and start encouraging others to vote too. Turnout in Local Elections is usually poor, so those who can't be bothered should either start bothering or shut up.

Why not give the local authority the money in first place rather than having an external body deciding whether the project in question meets eligibility criteria for funding.

Political expediency ReallyTired, the EU were able to fund projects that Westminster wouldn't,.

I know people who voted for the referendum by voting Tory , voted to remain and yet blame the brexit on those who voted leave.

Most Tory voters voted to Leave. The brexit fuck up was made by the Tories and now it must be sorted by the Tories (good luck). Europe has always been the Conservatives achilles heel, inflamed recently by UKIP.

On another note most Labour voters voted to remain so lets put the little porky about Corbyn not campaigning hard enough to bed.

In areas like Yorkshire or Sunderland there were plenty of labour voters who vote leave. Tory area like the south east were more divided. The support of voters in traditional labour areas won the leave campaign.

Let's get this right more people voted leave than remain. There was support for leave across all social classes.

Maybe it's true that many leave voters are former labour voters, but that doesn't make them into Tories. Wales also voted to leave. Corbyn et al have alienated the electorate. Labour voters are becoming an endangered species.

I blame Cameron.

For all of the London haters, would getting involved in politics and lobbying for progressive taxation and better regional taxation not have been a little more effective than shitting where you eat, if you'll pardon the phrase?

I don't think anyone hates London. Many leave voters believe that their interests are best served by the uk leaving the EU. The taxation system is fine the way it is.

If labour actually did a half decent job of being in opposition then 4 million people might have not voted UKIP at the last election.

I prefer to be optimistic and believe that the short term pain of leaving the EU is worth it.

The majority for Leave was so small, you could as much say that almost any one of the diverse constituencies of the leave vote "won the leave campaign" UKIP supporters being an example, or people registering a protest vote, or the stupid, or the bigoted or even all of those. The reality is that a lot of people voted for leave for a lot of different reasons but the majority of leave voters were delivered by the Tory heartlands in both the south and the north. Look at the vote in Yorkshire, Bradford, Doncaster and Barnsley were leave but Leeds, York, Sheffield and Harrogate were remain but then look at those vast swathes of Tory majority in the rural areas that are overwhelmingly leave Shipton, Ripon, Richmond, the East Riding all with massive Tory majorities www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36613507

Tory area like the south east were more divided.
No. With the exception of London and the University areas, and some Cotswold areas, the vote was strongly leave. 62% of Tory voters voted Leave, and this map shows just how strongly they are represented in the South East. There aren't all that many Labour voters in the South East,. When the Tories do badly the vote will usually go to the Lib Dems.

Cameron completely messed up, and Leave was firmly delivered by Tory voters. So let's quit the blaming Corbyn. (Not a Labour supporter, just fed up of seeing the buck passed.) If Brexit turns out to be a mess, it will be a Tory mess.

In my town the leave and the remain vote was very split.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

This link shows that much of the country was divided. In Scotland and Northern Ireland the turn out was poor compared with England and Wales. Maybe grumpy remainers should blame those who abstained.

This link shows all the results for individual area. My area was one of the closest in the country.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/a

More than happy to stick with blaming Cameron.

Cameron's honours list was particularly amazing after all this. Completely destroys the country and then buggers off, handing honours to his wife's hairdresser as he goes. How on earth did we land up governed by such a charlatan?

All this talk of 'blame' and who's 'fault' it is, as if brexit was a broken window and not a democratic choice. The U.K. chose this. We want it. It's not a mistake, it was a conscious choice.

Conscious choice for what? If it had been the sort of choice which Norway was offered, EEA or EU, then yes, it's a straight choice. But in the UK:

Stick it to Westminster?
Round up all the Muslims and throw them out?
Have more money for the NHS?
Stay within the single market, but not pay any contribution for it?
Completely leave the single market and trade with other countries?
Regain our fishing industry?
Pie in the sky?

Just a few things which the slightly more than 1/3 of the population wanted.

This is what I don't understand, to get a clear mandate to leave the EU, a majority of the electorate surely had to vote for it, the leave campaign did not get close to this figure, only achieving 37 per cent, so why are we now leaving the EU?