Question for Leave Voters Only

[lljkk]

(I know what Remainers will say :) ).

When do you want Article 50 to be invoked? What is latest acceptable date?
If any, what conditions must be met?

'Question for Leave Voters Only'

So the posters who slate anyone who voted Leave appear and then post.

No thanks, I'll give it a miss thanks. Have a good night all except you Bear ... oh ok ... even you

I'm sorry you feel like that through but the simple fact is, even on threads I don't post on, no one gives us any sensible answers.

The default position of all leave voters on MN seems to be, I'm not telling you as you're all nasty, but, in the month since the vote there have been no answers.

What answers are you expecting? No one has a crystal ball. I was given a vote and chose to use it. I could have abstained, I didn't. I wouldnt have voted remain because I think the EU is on a coarse to implode. I'm sorry you clearly don't agree but there you have it. On the whole, I think the UK will be a better place out of the EU. I'm not allowed to say that though. I'm not allowed to say anything unless it's ..."GDP will be x in 2019". Our trade deal with Australia will be completed in 2021. Well, I'm not in Government and I'm not involved in the negotiations so I have no definitive answers. Which is what you berate posters about over and over again.

What was the question again?

when? A50 should be triggered once May and her team have a plan, and the legal bits are sorted constitutionally.

deadline? I don't really have one, personally. Much more important to get it right than to get it right now. My vague expectation is that they'll trigger it sometime in 2017 so we are a year post actual brexit at the next election, though.

Conditions the negotiations are going to be so complex that I am going to wait to see what begins to emerge. I might have a pet preference around, say, manufacturing, but in the negotiations that preference isn't met as a bargaining chip to do with, I don't know, research funding or something. There's really no point in me personally making a shopping list.

Which is what you berate posters about over and over again.

Because I can't comprehend voting for a complete unknown in the vain hope things get better despite all the indications to the contrary.

I guess I'm never going to hear the answers I want as they just don't exist.

I posted on some threads in the run up to the referendum. Afterwards I gave up because Every Single Thread started by a leaver wanting to discuss the result with other leavers was invaded by Remainers who derailed, took over, shouted down, insulted and belittled leavers.

in the month since the vote there have been no answers.

What answers do you want, or expect anyone here to have? We're not in charge. And as I said in a pp, I don't expect the people who are in charge to tell everyone what they're planning.

What I expect is happening now is that negotiating teams are being assembled on both sides, that our team is working out what we want and what we don't want, and that a tentative timetable is being drawn up for when everyone might be ready to start, and how things will proceed.

But I'm only someone posting on a forum, I have no inside information, so I have no way of knowing if that is what's happening.

No they don't. So stop popping up on threads saying YOU voted to leave, so come on scum clever clogs, tell us exactly what will have happened in 10 years time

It's just impossible to chat on mn about it without being shouted down, so most people don't bother.

Xpost Flavia

The problem is Bear is, you won't entertain anything anyone posts unless it agrees with what you want it to say. That is why people give up. People don't come on MN to answer to you believe it or not. Yet you feel the need to gatecrash others threads aswell as question over and over again, anyone that posts something that is different to what you want to hear.

What part of 'we don't know what is going to happen as no-one has ever had a Referendum like this before' - don't you understand? Why don't you write to Gove and Boris and ask them to be more specific for you also? Or Cameron to ask him why he gave us this Referendum? Also, please ask him why he said the UK could survive outside of the EU, if - we can't - as you have the all knowing crystal ball

What part of 'we don't know what is going to happen as no-one has ever had a Referendum like this before' - don't you understand?

The whole of it.

Clearly it's fine and dandy to vote for a complete unknown- I just missed that memo.

I think tiggy summed it all up perfectly for you on your other thread Bear I hope you find some peace with this and let people have an opinion without your input on this matter ... I'll leave it there

But no one knows what would have happened if we remained. Thats as unknown as leaving.

The question wasn't what will happen, but what do you want to happen. It's not an unreasonable question.

Personally I have no idea whether the greater risk lies in the damage to investment resulting from prolonged uncertainty or in setting something in motion for which we are as yet unprepared in the hope that the rest of the EU will extend the negotiation time as necessary rather than insisting on a 2 year deadline. But I would like to hear from others who do.

Anyway, for someone who doesn't get involved in these kind of threads with Bear, It seems on this occasion I have. And round and round in circles we go.

Night all.

Realistically, in view of a new PM, a new Brexit Government Department to be created and the HoC now being on summer recess until the beginning of September, as a Leave voter I hope Article 50 will be invoked by the beginning of 2017.

So why early 2017 if you have no idea of what exactly you expect or want detail wise? Is it just some date plucked out of the air? Just a whimsy?

What on earth do you think can possibly be sorted in a mere 6 months

Xpost Flavia

But no one knows what would have happened if we remained. Thats as unknown as leaving.

Yes, exactly. It wasn't a choice between leaving or staying with the EU as it is now. It was leave or stay with whatever the EU will be in five years or ten or twenty, or until the whole thing collapses, as I believe it will.

No-one knows what's going to happen. We don't know who's going to be in charge in France or Germany by the end of next year.

As I said up thread, I'd like to see A50 triggered early next year. The sooner the better, IMO, but I accept things don't really happen that quickly.

I'd possibly like to see some guarantees offered to EU citizens who are here and in permanent employment before a specified date.

I'd rather not be paying over large sums of money in return for continued access to the single market.

But mostly I just want out.

If it became clear that the economic damage resulting from losing access to the single market would dwarf whatever contributions were needed to stay in, would you (any leavers on this thread) be happy with an EEA deal?

Why do you want out so urgently flavia?

Kaija, I think that's something we can't possibly know until after the event, and I hope our team won't go into the negotiations with the mindset that their job is damage limitation at all costs.

Leavers were accused (insultingly) of being 'Little Englanders'. Remainers need to be careful not to be 'Little Europeans'. We want to look beyond Europe. We may see a downturn in our trade with the EU, but at the same time, I hope Liam Fox will be racking up the airmiles looking for trade deals with other countries. It's encouraging to see how many countries have already expressed interest.

2017 as a date I really don't mind when A50 is triggered. It just seems to me that there will come a moment when May and her team balance up how far they've got with planning, against the frustration of other European countries and the damage of continuing uncertainty, plus wanting some sort of status quo rather than massive flux in may 2020 so that they can say "gosh look how far we've come, let us finish this vital work" rather than "trust us, guv, once we get started, it'll be wonderful" (ukip landslide right? ).

I wish Cameron had allowed the civil service to plan for brexit but, since he didn't, we all have to sit in the uncertainty for a bit. The strength of our desire for clear answers doesn't make them any more likely to be forthcoming immediately. Nor does it give us any more entitlement to such answers (I mean, we may or may not be entitled to know precisely what our politicians and civil servants are planning, but the strength of our desire to know their emerging plans has no impact on the level of our actual entitlement).

At this point, damage limitation is looking pretty vital.

And suddenly everyone is trusting the experts.

Sorry that I seem to be dominating this thread, everyone else must have gone to bed!

Why do you want out so urgently flavia?

I think since we're going to leave, the best thing is to get on and do it as quickly as possible. Rather like when a couple decide to divorce, they don't really want to go on living in the same house, paying a mortgage, sharing a bank account, longer than they absolutely have to.

I think the EU will collapse sooner or later and I want us well clear when it happens. I think dragging it out will cause greater uncertainty and be bad for the economy.And I think the sooner we're out, the sooner we can get on with developing trade with other countries.

I agree with Nick Flavia