The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Hunting for the Opposition.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT OUT CONTINUES - THREAD EIGHT!

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Each of the parties seem to have a taken a very different style to their leadership contests.

The Tory party have been well documented as doing in the classic style of Hamlet. After the entire Conservative Party have spent two weeks stabbing each in the back and front, May steps forward to take the crown for herself.

But what about the others?

The UKIP leadership contest seems to be in comedy style of Peter Kay’s Phoenix Nights. In a strange turn of events, that no one predicted and seem quite absurd, they seem to be changing their rules so their new leader must have been a member for 5 years. The punchline is this rules just about everyone out, apart from Neil Hamilton and Steven Woolfe. As BigChocFrenzy points out, we are expecting Arron Banks to hand out the brown envelopes. We are just waiting for the poorly thought out, and badly booked racist band to turn up and make everyone cringe in horror and distract everyone from UKIP's candidates and their manifestos in the process.

Meanwhile Labour Party decide to do what they thought was Star Wars Panto. After spending a week going “She’s Standing”, “Oh No She’s Not” Angela Eagle is declared the Empire Strikes Back candidate by Diane Abbot. Well if she’s the rebel leader, then who is Darth Vader and the Emperor?

Unfortunately, you’d be forgiven for thinking the performance is starting to look more and more like a re-enactment of One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, by the minute:

A battle of wills between two forces locked together in a room with ultimately different and opposing self-interests. This is only resolved when the new leader to the dynamic who sought to upset the institution, and give the others their freedom, is lobotomised and subsequently killed in an act of mercy. His murderer manages to escape the prison to the cheers of those still stuck inside.

The Greens of course are a foreign language film, no one has heard of and no one is really that interested in watching.

The Lib Dems are merely sat in the audience. With Tim Farron heckling.

But where is Gandalf?

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At least some sanity has returned and we now have some leaders. May can now get stuck into the job of handing the nightmare that is Brexit whilst making herself at home at Number 10. Rumours are circulating that it’s been left a bit of a pigsty.

We will follow May, on her new adventures to foreign lands to persuade Merkel and Juncker to hand over a mythical unicorn to the UK. Meanwhile will we continue our own hunt for the opposition, whilst we all consult our dictionaries for the meaning of the word ‘Brexit’ in bafflement in the wake of ‘Brexit means Brexit’.

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Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2682358-The-Westministenders-Media-Baron-Hunger-Games-continues-Is-it-about-to-all-implode?pg=1 Previous thread 7

Is it ok to have a party leader who has the support of the membership but not the support of the PLP?

The problem is that now isn't really a good time to sort that out. You could equally ask whether a leader without the support of the party is viable.

The Tories atleast narrowed it down to best of two, but if Leadsom hadn't stood down they could have faced the same problem.

I think it's very difficult to give people a vote and then change the rules if you don't like the result - you have to put the rules in place before asking the question. The question was asked as soon as JC was challenged.

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 32m32 minutes ago Camden Town, London
Labour NEC defeats coup plot. Only Rupert Murdoch, the Sun and @GloriaDePiero can stop Corbyn now!
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Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 3m3 minutes ago
@paulmasonnews @GloriaDePiero god you do talk some shit Paul
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Swedish The 172 retain their seats unless they choose to resign before a GE.
They are free to elect a new leader and create their own party, or do as they please.

MPs can switch parties or form a new one, without having to resign their seat and fight a byelection.
In the past, defectors to Lab / Lib / Con have done exactly this.
Defectors are mostly are defeated in the next GE by a new candidate from their original party.

Carswell was an honourable exception, who choose to resign his seat when he defected to UKIP and the won the bye-election (I totally reject his politics, but I respect his behaviour here)

How does that work? Would there have to be 172 by-elections? What happened when Carswell joined UKIP?

When Carswell defected, he resigned voluntarily and stood for re-election in a by-election on a Ukip platform. He did not have to do that.

How does that work? Would there have to be 172 by-elections? What happened when Carswell joined UKIP?

They can stay for the duration of their term I believe. Re-election would be the issue.

My understanding of Carswell, is that he resigned the seat when he changed party and then re-stood at the by-election. This was a personal decision he felt was morally appropriate but he was not obliged to do so.

YY re: John Smith.

and agree with poster up-thread who commented on fact that PLP don't seem to have understood what motivated people to vote Leave.

As someone on BBC News is saying now, can only see this as the beginning of the end of the Labour Party as the opposition party.

— Tim Farron (@timfarron)
July 12, 2016
If you believe in social justice & economic competence you have a home in the @LibDems. Come and join the opposition t.co/ezq2m85mJ0

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 8m8 minutes ago
Labour needs Relate

The problem is that now isn't really a good time to sort that out. You could equally ask whether a leader without the support of the party is viable.

It seems to me it is now or never. Because if things stay the way they are, with a Leader publicly disowned by the PLP, the Labour Party cannot do its job and will collapse/split.

And yes, of course, a Leader needs both to be viable.

Yes, my, ahem, productivity has take quite a dive in the last 2 weeks

Paul Mason - what do we think? It all feels a bit David Icke. And I was a big Paul Mason fan. His parody account is a bit too accurate.

UKIP will be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of a Labour split..

People who for generations voted a donkey with a labour rosette will be forced to choose for once.

It does not bode well for British politics. I do think that it is impossible for the Labour MPs to carry on under Corbyn as he isn't providing opposition.

There has been this talk of a Lib Dem / Labour party. I now wonder if that is the only option left open.

MrsL and Swedish - I have done almost no work in the last week and a half, although I did stay up until 4.30 the other night and got about three days worth done whilst there was nothing happening! All this has utterly buggered up my plan to get the current project done before the summer holidays.

The Liberal Democratic Labourers?

The Liberally Labouring Democrats?

Laura Kuenssberg Verified account @bbclaurak

Highly likely that Labour Party itself will challenge the decision in the courts

Its also highly likely that the most the courts will do is defer back to the NEC...

Love all the simultaneous answers to the deselection question

What's the Paul Mason parody account? I could do with a laugh.

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1m1 minute ago
Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

I do not understand what this means!! Feel free to explain to me in v simple words!

JC on BBC news is being massively infuriating after being challenged re: lack of MP support simply says "mps have to come together".

I used to like the Labour Party. But this is just carnage.

When the late John Smith rebiewed the leadership rules, the question of sacking a leader was raised.
He reportedly said there was no need to specify a mechanism for this, because the PLP could pass a vote a No Confidence in such a leader "and no leader would be mad enough to stay after that"

Reasonable sensible people can make huge mistakes assuming things about other people who are neither reasonable nor sensible.

It doesn't matter if JC is the nicest cleverest person in the Labour Party:
The PLP reject him overwhelmingly
so he can't function as Leader of the Opposition or be a credible alternative PM in the next GE

If Labour are determined to have JC, then they must:

• deselect the 172 (they'll never support him fully, whatever they promise)
• put other candidates in all those seats at the next GE

i.e. he can only be an effective leader AFTER the next GE
(I wonder if that is why some on the left are demanding a GE ?)
but he may be leader of a party that has far fewer MPs than now

Simply 'Democrats' is what has been muted I believe.

Under the circumstances I think that would be an unwise choice.

PMSL Laughing - not an Alistair Campbell fan but FFS Paul Mason

I think the party should split now. I hate to tell Corbyn if you are listening but the new supporters really will not equate to boots on the ground and unlike the referendum which was propaganda for a small period of time your social media as is also won't work long term. Many long standing members will not go to JC's party, they undertand the infrastruvure and how to actually run a party - so very valuable. And ready to be splated but old man leading a young party will not work for long. Soz is just the way wiv the kidz

Now it's like any divorce - the battle over the assets and who has to change their name. We could see the Unions split over this too.

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton

Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date and two days for registered supporters with £25 fee.

OK. I will confess to not quite understanding the freeze thing. Does that mean: to vote, you need to have paid your money two days ago?

JC on BBC news is being massively infuriating after being challenged re: lack of MP support simply says "mps have to come together".

So says the man who always used to rebel against the leadership.

It won't work. Not unless he goes.

I think a split is inevitable unless somebody can beat JC and show that they have both the support of the party and the PLP.

Alternatively JC wins, he reached some kind of working agreement with the PLP, at some point he retires/there is schism in momentum and his support fizzles out and maybe by 2025 Labour are electable? (Helped by the fact that the passage of time means that the Tories have sufficiently blotted their copy book to be due for a period in opposition).