The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Hunting for the Opposition.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT OUT CONTINUES - THREAD EIGHT!

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Each of the parties seem to have a taken a very different style to their leadership contests.

The Tory party have been well documented as doing in the classic style of Hamlet. After the entire Conservative Party have spent two weeks stabbing each in the back and front, May steps forward to take the crown for herself.

But what about the others?

The UKIP leadership contest seems to be in comedy style of Peter Kay’s Phoenix Nights. In a strange turn of events, that no one predicted and seem quite absurd, they seem to be changing their rules so their new leader must have been a member for 5 years. The punchline is this rules just about everyone out, apart from Neil Hamilton and Steven Woolfe. As BigChocFrenzy points out, we are expecting Arron Banks to hand out the brown envelopes. We are just waiting for the poorly thought out, and badly booked racist band to turn up and make everyone cringe in horror and distract everyone from UKIP's candidates and their manifestos in the process.

Meanwhile Labour Party decide to do what they thought was Star Wars Panto. After spending a week going “She’s Standing”, “Oh No She’s Not” Angela Eagle is declared the Empire Strikes Back candidate by Diane Abbot. Well if she’s the rebel leader, then who is Darth Vader and the Emperor?

Unfortunately, you’d be forgiven for thinking the performance is starting to look more and more like a re-enactment of One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, by the minute:

A battle of wills between two forces locked together in a room with ultimately different and opposing self-interests. This is only resolved when the new leader to the dynamic who sought to upset the institution, and give the others their freedom, is lobotomised and subsequently killed in an act of mercy. His murderer manages to escape the prison to the cheers of those still stuck inside.

The Greens of course are a foreign language film, no one has heard of and no one is really that interested in watching.

The Lib Dems are merely sat in the audience. With Tim Farron heckling.

But where is Gandalf?

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At least some sanity has returned and we now have some leaders. May can now get stuck into the job of handing the nightmare that is Brexit whilst making herself at home at Number 10. Rumours are circulating that it’s been left a bit of a pigsty.

We will follow May, on her new adventures to foreign lands to persuade Merkel and Juncker to hand over a mythical unicorn to the UK. Meanwhile will we continue our own hunt for the opposition, whilst we all consult our dictionaries for the meaning of the word ‘Brexit’ in bafflement in the wake of ‘Brexit means Brexit’.

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Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2682358-The-Westministenders-Media-Baron-Hunger-Games-continues-Is-it-about-to-all-implode?pg=1 Previous thread 7

My apologies then, Eatshit. I misunderstood.

Momentum et all have made this ALL about Corbyn.

As for due process - it's being followed. AE has a right to challenge.

The NEC has a right to decide on interpretation of the rules and to do so by secret ballot if voted for by a majority.

Process only seems to be an issue when it appears it might not be to JC's benefit.

Let's not forget that the only reason for this mess is the gross oversight for not being explicit that a leader who lost PLP support would have to enter a ballot under the same terms (which would seem fair and democratic to me) as any challenger - because no one ever considered that anyone who had lost the support of 80% of MP's would not resign as their position was untenable.

I somehow don't think the 17M people who voted to leave will accept the idea that the government "broke the law" by having the referendum. They will instinctively feel that they the people make the law in a democracy. And this question was very simple, straight forward and at the heart of our state. I would agree with them.

Delurking on this excellent thread. I think Eatsshits was questioning Corbyn's values, not MrsLupo's.

I totally agree with Mrs Lupo, no one in the Labour party is covering themselves in glory here. There was always going to be a lot of scrutiny of the process given how Corbyn was elected and due to the coup that the PLP are attempting to carry out. For all you Corbyn-haters who want him out at any cost, it really does come across as treacherous back stabbing and opportunistic following the referendum.

Corbyn is not responsible for the trolling of AE, which is awful. I am a full Labour party member too and I joined to vote for Corbyn hoping for a new approach and policy changes, I think it's unfair and inaccurate to suggest that the groundswell of support he had last year wasn't genuine.

I'm not quite sure what people want Corbyn to do though. Say it again? Say it louder? Take out the insurgents with a flamethrower?

Chuck them out of the Labour Party?

You can't have rules about how decisions are arrived at and then just bend them when it suits you - or you can, but you can't expect to be respected for it. Even the decision to hold the meeting on a day's notice smacks of stitch-up

But sometimes politics has to move very, very fast, because events move fast. Labour have been left for dust by the Tories in the past week.

On the same note, even with all the rules followed and every i and t dotted and crossed, momentum aren't going anywhere if JC doesn't get on the ballot, and the PLP MPs will still be there if he wins. At this point a split seems inevitable.

Corbyn has condemned threats and violence.

Yes, in a rather ineffective, disinterested, that's life way. I don't think for one minute that he condones what has been done in his name, but he hasn't taken responsibility for it either.

He is leader of a party that seems to be descending into bullying, intimidation and violence. He needs to do more than shrug and send his regrets.

TBS, our local Labour party has been having problems for the last 12 months with various factions emerging, deselections and rather public criticisms of other members. The behaviour is appalling. Its a shame as there are some good people in it.

There is a real problem through the party from what I see on social media.

What I see happening in the newspapers in other local areas seems to mirror local problems in many ways - we don't have someone standing down.

And then there is what is going on nationally.

The more I find out the more I am both utterly amazed and appalled. We all NEED the Labour Party. Right now I'm not sure how much of it is functioning.

Its seems difficult to argue that there are not widespread problems running throughout the party at all levels. Its a shambles and it needs someone to really get a grip on it.

Flo - no I'm not suggesting MrsLupo is personally responsible for all the trolling

Simply that JC, as the rallying point and personification of their campaign should have been far more vocal in his condemnation of it.

And another thing (rant, rant,rant!), this kind of behaviour will continue even after a split and without the PLP if it is seen to be tolerated In a party that JC leads.

I would be happy to vote for Keir Starmer who I thought was good as DPP and highly electable, or this Owen Smith sounds reasonably promising. IF someone decent is on the ballot I will vote for them. Not Angela Eagle.

And re Grayling - so he shouldn't be put in charge of anything more than a stationery cupboard and messed up in Justice but he's likely to be put in charge of the most delicate and important international political process in decades?

Based on voting records alone, I would rather see Owen Smith than Angela Eagle.

Any new info on whether OS is actually standing or is he doing what AE did previously?

As for due process - it's being followed. AE has a right to challenge.

Nobody has said otherwise. With respect, you should maybe RTFT. Secret ballots and meetings in camera are not normally allowed. They do not suggest a transparent democratic process.

As for throwing people out of the party, god, where to start. Momentum is separate from the Labour party. Obviously there is some (much) overlap of members, but a mammoth (maybe impossible) task to identify all troublemakers and cross reference with member records. Just thinking out loud here, really, but I also wonder if the troublemakers are actually the ones who aren't members anyway. Lots of precedent for that in other political movements. Something to look into, definitely.

Corbyn haters - I have been called let me think...traitor, turncoat, Blairite, back stabber. Emotive words. I can stand by what I have seen. Actually seen

Didn't vote for him. To left of party (it is actually possible to be left and not agree with JC)

FGS People are scared to stand up - how is that OK? Any one found at fault should be expelled from the party. End of. Apart from to be part of momentum you don't have to be a party member - sense an issue there

Yes sorry again Eatshit

While I'm sure much of that groundswell of support for Corbyn is genuine, I have to say, I am now questioning the way he emerged from nowhere. It does seem odd. Knowing how the old Militant Tendency used to work, I'm annoyed with myself for not picking up on it before.

Agreed that politics is moving fast, but establishing whether or not Corbyn needs 51 backers could easily have waited 48 or 72 hours, enough time for all NEC members, many of whom will have needed to travel or take time off work, to make arrangements to attend. Preferable to excluding them.

I think it's increasingly obvious that Angela Eagle is a stalking horse, btw, for the purposes of triggering this NEC meeting, so that serious contenders know how the land lies before risking their reputation.

MrsLupo - I assure you I have read the thread.

You raised the issue of process.

I cannot see how due process is not being followed.

The NEC has a right to hold a secret ballot if they vote transparently to do so - which they have done.

It could well be they decide to let him run. I'm ok with that. It's their prerogative to decide in the event of an ambiguity.

However Momentum members have to agree to the principles of the Labour party and can not be a member of may other party - they can and should purge asap

To survive they will have to. any hint of organised violence and or intimidation and they will be investigated legally - as they should

I'm a football fan. If you're caught making trouble, you're thrown out and barred. The end.

I still want Corbyn to go but if he won't then I think he should be on the ballot.

Meanwhile someone in UKIP seems to be talking sense... well Carswell seems to be at least:

www.talkcarswell.com/home/how-to-build-the-new-brexit-consensus/3082#.V4S2_M6JVuY.twitter

Mike ‏@brtnz
Brexit means brexit

oooooo someone is trying to help with that dictionary definition.

I think I might be a Corbyn-hater too! I don't hate him but I do think he needs to go, simply for the fact he is not an effective leader. And that's really what the party needs right now otherwise it's going to disintegrate.

I've thought all along that AE is a sacrifical lamb. I don't believe she wants to be PM or even really wants to be leader - the PLP want to get rid of JC and that's why she's standing.

Certain people keep banging on about how much they don't like him or anything he has done, and that he never should have been elected etc. No need for the pearl-clutching about "Corbyn-haters". It's just a throwaway phrase. It wasn't specifically applied to you. I'm not a member of Momentum and I'm not calling you a traitor. I really couldn't care less what you personally think, except that I disagree with you on some things. I'm entitled to my opinion too.

I agree people found to be doing the nasty stuff should be expelled. On both sides.

I hope tbh that Labour take the time they need, and that Corbyn goes on the ballot. Not a member of any party but the parties are different. Tories may be great at fast choice of a leader and presenting themselves as a unified movement under one leader, but Europe has broken them apart again and again, they are not immune to dissension and the next four years are going to be unbelievably tough on them as a party [leaving aside what it will do to the rest of us ]. Labour are different and if they are not going to semi-impose a leader I think they should just take some time and chew it all out. Seems like that process has been avoided since Ed Miliband won, perhaps it is coming out now.

I keep thinking our local MP would be great as shadow person for Brexit but then remembering she's a Tory no idea why. Might be an interesting role for Dan Jarvis, but assume he wants shadow foreign secretary?

I really, really, really hope that Andrea 'married parents are much better' Leadsom does not end up as minister for children and families or whatever it's called. I'd honestly rather have Stephen Crabb who has shown that life is a bit more complex than that. It would make sense if she were something in agriculture, what's that called now, is it still Defra?

I somehow don't think the 17M people who voted to leave will accept the idea that the government "broke the law" by having the referendum

But if it's found that the did, it can be resolved (ha!) with another, better-worded referendum question.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the discourse of "treason" because it suggests loyalty to Corbyn personally. The Labour Party is not a monarchy, and Labour MPs have every right to decide they don't trust his leadership.